Best disinfectant for cuts in the out doors?

Busted my hand pretty good on the river Saturday morning. Caught it between the canoe gunnel and an undercut rock ledge. Barked about three square inches of skin off of it. Bled like I had cut off my arm. I didn't notice it until I had recovered the canoe, gear and had it all repacked and relaunched down stream. Really looked cool with rivulets of blood dripping down my fingers and on my paddle into the water. After a brief look, I decised to take care of it later downstream. On closer inspection later, all it really needed at that point was some of the loose, rolled up skin cut off, and a general washing in cold (clean) water to get all the crusty blood off. By evening, the "oil" leak had stopped and just some nice clear "transmission fluid" was leaking. I didn't bandage it though I had the supplies to do so. And I didn't pour any astringents or apply any antibiotic goop. I did cover the quarter and dime bare spots this morning with bandaides to keep them clean while working, but will rip them off in a few minutes and apply a thin coat of triple antibiotic ointment. But likely won't reapply it when it is gone. Not pretty and hurts like hell this morning, but I've had worse and survived. I know well the signs of infection and will be looking for them. If any early signs appear, I'll get professional care. Otherwise, it is just more scars added to my book of life told on my hands and arms. And... medical advice you get on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it. I am still hoping to witness someone use a taser on a snakebite. All the better if I know it was a non-poisonous snake.
 
folder geek said:
Ya, usually people don't come here by choice unless they are part of the gold mining industry. Personally I love living here. I love the outdoors and as far as I am concerned this is one of the best places in the west for being outside.
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When I was in Second Grade. we lived in am even more metropolitan place - Beatty. One gas station. Interesting to see that the hotel on the corner is still there - an oasis for addicted gamblers shuffling between LV and Reno to improve their luck.
 
Codger_64 said:
If any early signs appear, I'll get professional care. Otherwise, it is just more scars added to my book of life told on my hands and arms. And... medical advice you get on the internet is worth exactly what you pay for it. I am still hoping to witness someone use a taser on a snakebite. All the better if I know it was a non-poisonous snake.
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Wait - so you DIDN'T pee on it? ;)

TF
 
Talfuchre said:
Wait - so you DIDN'T pee on it? ;)

TF
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And I didn't let Jake lick it either, though he wanted to. He did carefully lick all of his bleeding paws though. None of his cuts are infected today but he sure is tenderfooted. He is just sitting on the porch instead of romping in the yard chasing bees and butterflies. I gotta buy him some waterboots.
 
Peeing on open wounds

Some 50 years ago an uncle of mine, a forester from Russia told me about peeing on open wounds to clean them
It seemed to be common knowladge
 
neeman said:
Peeing on open wounds

Some 50 years ago an uncle of mine, a forester from Russia told me about peeing on open wounds to clean them
It seemed to be common knowladge
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I think if all you have to clean out a heavily contaminated wound is pee, you're in a world of trouble despite having a wound. That said, unless the person doing the peeing has a urinary tract infection, urine coming straight out Anthony Weiner (sorry, I couldn't resist) should be sterile. If you have no other options to clean a wound, in theory this would work. The only problem would be, if you waste all your pee cleaning out a wound, Bear Grylls would have nothing to drink.

Does anyone know anyone first hand who has used pee to clean out a wound? I mean, verifiable, trustworthy, first hand information? As I said above, if you're down to using pee to clean out a wound, likely you've got other major problems. I wonder how many people walking around would survive a situation like that?
 
This is a good thread, but as mentioned, best advice is from a licensed physician. Still, some folk remedies do have merit which could bear further discussion. I think if you can do a good initial cleaning and keep it clean and covered is probably the best you could do. I know covering with a Vaseline-based salve (my father swore by Bag-balm) and keeping the cut/laceration moist promotes faster skin repair. The only caution is that if you don’t get it clean enough, it could cause more issues from infection. Iodine and alcohol will kill anything in/around the wound to include skin tissue; that’s not a bad option in a non-sterile environment, but if you can then add a moisture barrier, cover and keep it clean that would be the best option.

A few considerations for your FAK is a small syringe to irrigate and flush out any debris; something to do the initial cleaning and then plenty of gauze and some tape. I pack the syringe for my Sawyer water filter (used to back-flush) which could do double duty and I always pack an extra role of medical tape and add some extra gauze to my FAKs.

ROCK6
 
Doctor advice is cool but we who don't have insurance, it means nothing.

Neosporin is essential to preventing infection that happens stupid easily in even the smallest wounds. I've had it clear up infection after getting them. I don't like the moisture thing either, some wounds don't scab though.

I just recently cut off a chunk of my finger meat, no stitches, no doctors, no medicine; I had it reattach well.

The key is stop bleeding, clean, repeat; pour that alcohol in there, don't matter if it hurts. Squirt neosprin under the skin/meat or into the wound, krazy glue around the edges just to try to hold it down and not bleed.

Cover that with guaze and wrap with tape.

I tried to keep as little neosporin on the guaze as I felt comfortable with while still having some on it just to keep the finger clean but not too moist.

I changed the glue stitches and cleaned the wound everyday with alcohol soaked guaze pad. When picking the glue off I poured alcohol into whatever sources of the wound were exposed, for the 1st several days this entire wound until eventualy the meat stayed in place after picking up the guaze, I was careful not to disturb it.

Cut a splint from a chopstick and taped it to the finger to keep it km mobile and the meat from lifting.

Just be sparing in your guaze, tape, and ointment so that you don't stay too wet (it will be wet) eventually skin grew under the skin layer that was on top as it fell away even in wet contion.

As soon as the finger was completly covered in skin I abandoned the bandages and ointment all together to let my finger dry out and new thin skin thicken up.

Cloth style athletic tape works the best.

What I carry In my pack is Alcohol & neosporin (disinfection)

Gauze and tape (bandage)

Large container of krazy glue with brush aplicator (sometimes its the only thing that can temporarily stop the bleeding or stick your flesh back until it sticks on its own)

Cutting tool (,Mora 511 only used for med kit)

Ibuorofens and Tylenol lol.

Wash your hands in alcohol and wipe everything down that your going use with an alcohol pad prior to bandaging, unbandaging and rebadaging your wound.
 
averageiowaguy said:
That said, unless the person doing the peeing has a urinary tract infection, urine coming straight out Anthony Weiner (sorry, I couldn't resist) should be sterile.
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Yes - but can we bind the wound with some Leathers? ;)




I hate to offer this video or even show up - but since you asked for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xxY7QO9Ass

Yes - I know it is a sear urchin sting - but - it is a wound - and in this case - therapy for said wound.


I would like to apologize for even bringing this up at this point.

Consider this thread derailed.

Again - sorry.

TF
 
Talfuchre said:
Yes - but can we bind the wound with some Leathers? ;)




I hate to offer this video or even show up - but since you asked for it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xxY7QO9Ass

Yes - I know it is a sear urchin sting - but - it is a wound - and in this case - therapy for said wound.


I would like to apologize for even bringing this up at this point.

Consider this thread derailed.

Again - sorry.

TF
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No problemo. I forgot about the urchin thing. I think I remember Mickey tellingly that they peed on an urchin wound on the expedition I was on but I wasn't there for that leg. Maybe it was a stingray though. I don't remember exactly. What I was asking though is about cleaning out a contaminated wound because you didn't have any water or other solutions to wash out a wound. I haven't ever talked to anyone who had actually done that because they were in that situation. It would be interesting to talk to an actual survivor of that situation was the reason I asked. It was more for my own curiosity.

At this point my real name is out there for everyone to hear on the podcast. I guess I don't have any fear of weird stalker types any more like I used to.
I'm going to give it here so that people can verify that I am in fact an expert in trauma/wounds. Look up Kyle Ver Steeg II, M.D. My dad has the same name missing the II part. It should be easy enough to verify that I graduated from Northwestern Medical School, did a general surgery residency at The University of Kansas in Kansas City and a plastic surgery residency at Louisville, with part of my training being at Kleinert and Kutz for hand surgery (hence my interest in ergonomic handles.). You can also verify that I'm board certified in both General Surgery and Plastic Surgery. Also you will find that I am a Fellow of the American College of Surgeons and a full member of the American Society of Plastic Surgeons. I do not give medical advice to patients over the Internet, but I try to make sure that I at least give evidence based answers when it comes to wilderness medical scenarios. And no, I did not tour with Eric Clapton, and no I'm not a member of the Armed Forces and I never have been. I'm not a Ranger, Seal, Green Beret, spy or anything else if that makes a difference. :)
 
I was at an event in which a reformed criminal was giving a talk about how he turned his life around. As expected he has stories to tell about his prison days. I clearly remember him saying it was common fro guys to cut themselves and then pee on it so it would get infected. That got them out of their holding area to a place a little less secure in which they made attempts to escape. He claimed some of the infections they got from doing that were quite bad. I also heard a doctor say it simply wasn't true they urine is sterile. To make his point he talked about UTIs and how they got started. It's kind of like the old dogs mouth thing which turned out to be a huge lie. They not only have over 6000 different types of bacteria, but they also have eggs that normally reside on their tongue that can cause major issues. Don't know, but I don't think I would try the peeing thing myself.
 
zpstl321 said:
I was at an event in which a reformed criminal was giving a talk about how he turned his life around. As expected he has stories to tell about his prison days. I clearly remember him saying it was common fro guys to cut themselves and then pee on it so it would get infected. That got them out of their holding area to a place a little less secure in which they made attempts to escape. He claimed some of the infections they got from doing that were quite bad. I also heard a doctor say it simply wasn't true they urine is sterile. To make his point he talked about UTIs and how they got started. It's kind of like the old dogs mouth thing which turned out to be a huge lie. They not only have over 6000 different types of bacteria, but they also have eggs that normally reside on their tongue that can cause major issues. Don't know, but I don't think I would try the peeing thing myself.
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Well, it gets into the minutia to argue about this. Urine in the bladder, for all intents and purposes, is sterile. *** I have to qualify that statement later. Now there are often times some bacteria and other organisms in the urethra that can be picked up by the urine on the way out, but as to whether that would cause a wound infection I don't know. It would depend on the situation I guess. If your only option is to leave heavy nasty contamination in the wound or pee on the wound to wash it out, I don't think peeing on the wound would make it worse. Other physicians may or may not concur with that opinion. I think the answer you would get back would be highly situation dependent.

Now for some minutia. Feel free to stop reading. I think I remember reading in a journal that someone did a study where they took urine specimens during surgery and did cultures on it to see if it was indeed sterile. The urine cultures grew nothing. But then they took the urine and did DNA tests on it to see if there was bacterial DNA present. I think they did find some DNA in some patients but I could be wrong about that. So what does it mean, in the real world, if there is bacterial DNA present but you can't get it to grow any actual bacteria in a culture? Who knows. Maybe some bacteria traveled up the urethra and made it into the bladder and were destroyed by the immune system. I can't say for sure but that would be my initial thought. In my mind, bacterial DNA present in urine, but no bacteria growing once it hits a culture means that the bacteria were dead, or there was some error in the study somewhere. It happens. One little teeny tiny error in handling a specimen during DNA studies can be compounded massively. Unfortunately I have first hand experience with how difficult those studies can be to execute. Either way, if the urine from the bladder won't grow bacteria in a culture, I can't see how it would cause a wound infection. Science is a tricky thing. Maybe someone will actually research that. Or maybe they have and I just haven't seen the paper because I'm too busy with other things. Another quick point - if I take a beaker and make a slurry of poop and water and put it in an autoclave, it will be sterile when the autoclave is done. There will be bacterial DNA and other DNA present in the beaker, but nothing is going to grow in culture because there are no living organisms. Does this make sense?

My advise hasn't changed. Wash the wound out with potable water. Potable water isn't sterile either, but it doesn't need to be. It is better than leaving stuff like dirt or poop in a wound when you KNOW that those things likely have large bacteria and fungal components. I do not advocate peeing in a wound. I was entertaining the question. If you're in that situation of having to rely on washing out a wound with urine, I'm guessing you've got big time problems. That is why I am wondering if anyone has a verifiable case where that has happened and the person survived.
 
How effectiv we is alcohol at sanitation when washing wounds out with it?

Like 100% in the short time it takes to clean/wipe a wound down or would it need to sit a while?

Just for the sake of knowledge
 
stvpourciau said:
How effectiv we is alcohol at sanitation when washing wounds out with it?

Like 100% in the short time it takes to clean/wipe a wound down or would it need to sit a while?

Just for the sake of knowledge
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Alcohol is very effective at killing all living things - including skin and muscle cells So it would, for example greatly interfere with healing if used repeatedly.
 
I can appreciate that under ideal conditions, keeping the wound moist & well tended leads to faster healing, probably with less scarring.
But in the bush, I would rather a scab form. It provides protection, & doesn't need as much attention.

Earlier in this thread I recommended Iodine in a dropper bottle. It is actually Povidone solution. I have not found that it hurts much, certainly not like alcohol. I use it on moderate wounds. Most wounds heel without attention. I have never sufferred a bad wound in the bush.
 
Any fans of "Bactene"? ( benzalkonium chloride plus lidocaine ). It was the "no sting" wonder in the mercury/iodine age.
 
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