New Umnumzaan Pivot

[kennywoo]

That's how I read it too. I'd be curious to see a breakdown of both knives interiors. Hey Kenny, would you mind breaking your new version down and taking some more fantastic pix for us?

Exactly...I have an '08 already ...I was hoping to grab another with the 'old pivot' but got the new.

Working on pics of the internals...have to get some more Allen wrenches...don't wanna strip the screws, wrenches I have in the appropriate size are rounded off.

 

[blackend]

Sweet!

 

[US-STEEL]

have to get some more Allen wrenches...don't wanna strip the screws, wrenches I have in the appropriate size are rounded off.

Just a recommendation Kenny: I get my allen, torx and slotted bits from Brownells. I get them primarily for my firearms, but they're exceptional for my blades too. They're hardened tool steel and almost bullet-proof, plus the fine folks at Brownells give them a lifetime warranty. Brownells sells many brands, but the ones I'm referencing are the bits actually made by Brownells.

 

[bamahabir]

Prefer the 'original' look.

 

[kennywoo]

Ok, opened the umnum up.....

The pivot had a pretty good amount of loc-tite - so it took some force to break free.

The bronze washers spin free, very similar to the larger washer in the large 21. The slabs are flat under the washers.

Pivot seems to be 1/4"

Blade has 4 grooves similar to the 21 to hold grease around the pivot, etc.

Overall the knife was simple to take apart and put back together. Two allen screws and its apart.

 

[A.Dragg]

EDIT: Okay, now that I see the pics I am probably wrong. The new pivot does actually look the same size as the old one and the flange is just slightly bigger than the pivot diameter. I thought it would have a smaller pivot diameter like a Seb 21 but with a bigger flange. Glad to see they didn't actually shrink the pivot diameter.

Maybe this has already been mentioned, but I'm pretty sure the new pivot will actually have quite a bit smaller diameter. I realize the actual diameter of the old pivot isn't nearly as big as the flange makes it look, as I have broken down my Zaan's many times. However, if I recall correctly, the actual diameter is at least 1/4", probably more like 5/16" (would be my guess). At any rate, I think the diameter is actually about as big as the outside diameter (the diameter of the flange) of the new pivot.

I'll wait anxiously to see the comparison pics, but unless the Seb 25 got a substantially beefed up pivot and the pivot diameter of the new 25 style pivot is almost as big as the flange is (which still might not be as big as the internal diameter of the Zaan), then the new Zaan with the 25 style pivot has a beefed-down pivot, and that's aside from the fact that the old Zaan could arguably be more stout just from having such a flange.

I know no one in history has probably ever broken a Sebenza pivot, which is much smaller, and the Zaan pivot being bigger and therefore stronger might be moot, but the fact remains that the bigger the pivot, the more the blade contacts the circumference of the pivot and gets more leverage to be more stout and less likely to ever get play. Especially with the CRK tight tolerances, the Zaan (at least the old Zaan's) have extremely stout blade/pivot setups with such a big pivot and big hole in the blade for it to grip that pivot tight all the way around.

Still, I trust Chris Reeve and his knife designs and even if the pivot of the new Zaan is smaller (the actual diameter), I'm sure it's still stout enough for you to be able to beat the knife as hard as CRK ever intended you to anyway. Aesthetically, though, I think the old pivot and old jimping are much better and the Wilson Combat edition looks the coolest anyway. I do, however, find myself in the minority because I actually like the overtravel disk for the lock bar. I don't tend to whine about how that or the "Idaho Made" stamp looks (not that I don't whine about small details in general, I just don't mind either of these particular things aesthetically). I actually like the way it looks, but not necessarily more-so than without it. I do like it's function, though, and think it adds to any framelock. I do wish it was an actual stabilizer though, and I wouldn't mind if it was a thick polished steel disk with a screw in the middle like an XM-18 or Les George VECP, though.

 

[A.Dragg]

Kennywoo - are your washers bent/concave? In the second picture, the washer looks like it's lifting off the table as if it's bent or curved?

 

[kennywoo]

Kennywoo - are your washers bent/concave? In the second picture, the washer looks like it's lifting off the table as if it's bent or curved?

Looks that way in the pic lol...but no, it's just the grease stuck to the washer pushing it up on one side

 

[kreole]

Thanks for the pics!

When did the grooves in the pivot hole get added to CRKs? I don't think I have them on any of mine--newest is March 2011--unless I'm entirely oblivious.

 

[blackend]

Great pix Kenny. My take is the pivot hole is the same size as the other Zaan. It's the Sebenza 25 that will get the change! Makes for easier tooling on the end of CRK. One pivot for all knives. The small Seb will of course be smaller.

 

[flash900]

Here is the official word from CRK on the pivot screws:

"The new Umnumzaans and the new 25 need a 1/8ths allen wrench for the pivot and the 5/64ths for the rest of the screws."

And this:

"All 21’s need the 5/64ths"

 

[A.Dragg]

Thanks for the pics!

When did the grooves in the pivot hole get added to CRKs? I don't think I have them on any of mine--newest is March 2011--unless I'm entirely oblivious.

I'm not sure when, but I do have a Micarta Insingo from April of this year, I think, that has them. If I'm not mistaken, the new washers and the grooves came out on the very first Zaan and shortly after all Sebenza's started coming with the new washers and grooves too.

 

[JNewell]

My most recents are from October 2011 and I don't believe they have those. I could be mistaken - I wasn't looking for them, but I think I would have seen them cleaning and relubing the knife.

Thanks for the pics!

When did the grooves in the pivot hole get added to CRKs? I don't think I have them on any of mine--newest is March 2011--unless I'm entirely oblivious.

 

[kennywoo]

FWIW

I have a small 21 from '11 and a large damascus 21 from early '12 that both have these grooves.

 

[Mad_Maxx]

nice pics, good to see inside!

 

[cziv]

"grooves"

Dumb question - Are we talking about the tiny slots inside the blade's pivot hole that are designed to hold a bit of lube inside?

I think, these like Cris's washers and his pivot bushing system in the fading 21 series are details that make Chris Reeve folders so excellent and well thought out.

It took me a few years and a few lg. Sebenzas to realize how nice they really are.

 

[kennywoo]

"grooves"

Are we talking about the tiny slots inside the blade's pivot hole that are designed to hold a bit of lube inside?

Yup inside the blade pivot hole.

 

[mwmccormick]

Eh, eh, well...I don't know that I dig it. I like the "I'm gonna take your lunch money and your gonna like it" look of the current pivot. It's just meatier and goes better with the knife.

The tool isn't an issue in terms of difficulty. I was surprised at how easy disassembly and reassembly was, even with lock tight. My only issue with the tool is it being plastic, no matter how high tech the stuff is, I'm still missing a peg on one.

Anyway, I don't like it, but I know Chris will do what he will do so this'll be the extent of my whining about it

I for one am a fan of the original pivot. I use the crap out of my 'zaan and I feel it's damn near a hard use knife. Using the Seb style screws, IMO, takes away from the cool details that makes the 'zaan a 'zaan. I have plenty of sebenzas if I want a sebenza. Yeah, just my opinion though.