Shipping insurance

[nautiquess]

Im Not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this question but here it is.

Just curious if any sellers and or buyers have opinions on shipping insurance. I’ve had terrible experiences usps and the few knives I actually do sell, I ship ups fully insured. I wouldnt even consider shipping anything over $100 without insurance.

However lately, I’ve purchased several knives on the forum where the seller wants F&F then wants additional funds for insurance on the shipment. All of the transactions in question were knives with prices over $750.

Am I way off base in thinking that insurance should be expected and included in the shipping of a knife of this value by the seller? Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

 

[Vince000]

The seller is always responsible for ensuring the package gets to the buyer and gets scanned as "delivered" unless the buyer waives that liability (e.g. in an international sale). Seller is also liable for damage if the package is not properly taped/padded/secured. Whether the seller purchases insurance or not is up to their risk tolerance since they are liable regardless of whether insurance is purchased or not - it's just a matter of whether the seller can tolerate the loss with whatever insurance level they purchase.

 

[David Mary]

Perfectly stated.

 

[kreole]

The forum rules are the seller is responsible for the package until it's delivered; it's literally written in the rules as part of the first rule for sellers:

• Insurance is the responsibility of the SELLER not the Buyer. This is for your protection.

If you don't pay for insurance as a buyer and it doesn't arrive, it's still the seller's problem and s/he needs to reimburse you. It doesn't matter that it was offered and not accepted by the buyer.


I always purchase it as a seller. As a buyer, I won't buy from anyone giving it as an option because (1) they clearly didn't read the rules so aren't trustworthy and (2) it's going to be a hassle to deal with them if any issue arises since from the start they're trying to cut corners and get out of their responsibilities.

 

[nautiquess]

That’s was always my understanding as well. However I was inquiring with a seller on a $1000 knife in which the seller wanted additional funds for insurance. As a buyer, paying with PayPal f&f you have no recourse if the shipment gets lost. I know PayPals policy on knives, but if a shipment is not delivered, they have backed me up on it when it was paid g&s

 

[Vince000]

That’s was always my understanding as well. However I was inquiring with a seller on a $1000 knife in which the seller wanted additional funds for insurance. As a buyer, paying with PayPal f&f you have no recourse if the shipment gets lost. I know PayPals policy on knives, but if a shipment is not delivered, they have backed me up on it when it was paid g&s

That would then depend on whether the seller values being a member in good standing here over a single loss - technically you have no recourse, but all transactions are based on a certain level of good faith and integrity.

 

[nautiquess]

100% agreed. Unfortunately It seems as though integrity any more Is harder to find than toilet paper in a pandemic.

I ended up passing on the one knife when the seller refused to take g&s even if I paid the fees and said if I wanted insurance I could pay additional and the knife was out of his hands once it’s dropped off to the shipper. My word of advice would be to ask all sellers how they would handle lost in transit items, especially of f&f purchases

 

[Danke42]

Im Not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this question but here it is.

Just curious if any sellers and or buyers have opinions on shipping insurance. I’ve had terrible experiences usps and the few knives I actually do sell, I ship ups fully insured. I wouldnt even consider shipping anything over $100 without insurance.

However lately, I’ve purchased several knives on the forum where the seller wants F&F then wants additional funds for insurance on the shipment. All of the transactions in question were knives with prices over $750.

Am I way off base in thinking that insurance should be expected and included in the shipping of a knife of this value by the seller? Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

It's just marketing. Draw you in with a low price and then start the add ons to make the dollars.

 

[longbow]

I insure everything when I ship it no matter what it is unless under 50 bucks. I always use tracking also. I also didn't know you could use F&F here. I never offer it cause it does not protect the buyer in case the seller wants to be an a-hole about whatever might happen. that's it, stay safe

 

[King of the Cheese]

Im Not sure if this is the appropriate forum for this question but here it is.

Just curious if any sellers and or buyers have opinions on shipping insurance. I’ve had terrible experiences usps and the few knives I actually do sell, I ship ups fully insured. I wouldnt even consider shipping anything over $100 without insurance.

However lately, I’ve purchased several knives on the forum where the seller wants F&F then wants additional funds for insurance on the shipment. All of the transactions in question were knives with prices over $750.

Am I way off base in thinking that insurance should be expected and included in the shipping of a knife of this value by the seller? Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks.

Key detail: Did you ASK for the insurance or rather did the seller ask you if you wanted it? Big difference. If I as a seller am willing to accept the risk, but you demanded/requested insurance for $750 knife (if that’s what happened), yeah, I can see how a seller might get a little annoyed as I’m guessing that could double the shipping cost (not sure but assuming).

 

[PirateSeulb]

Key detail: Did you ASK for the insurance or rather did the seller ask you if you wanted it? Big difference. If I as a seller am willing to accept the risk, but you demanded/requested insurance for $750 knife (if that’s what happened), yeah, I can see how a seller might get a little annoyed as I’m guessing that could double the shipping cost (not sure but assuming).

Given that the insurance is more for the sellers benefit than the buyers and most people expect a level of care and concern for high dollar values it should have already been figured into the cost.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Given that the insurance is more for the sellers benefit than the buyers and most people expect a level of care and concern for high dollar values it should have already been figured into the cost.

If I’m selling the knife and I accept the responsibility in making the buyer whole if it is lost in transit (as is the expectation), it is my call as to whether I put insurance on it, not the buyer. If the buyer wants insurance, the seller can either say “sure, I’ll add it in for no cost”… or say they didn’t plan on paying for it but accept the responsibility if there is an issue.

I don’t hold it against the seller for not putting insurance on the package.. but if USPS loses my $800 knife, I expect them (seller) to make me whole. If I’m that worried about it, I’ll just demand it.. but in the end, the claim has to pay out and that takes time.. so insurance is ultimately a sellers benefit… not a buyers.. so what difference does it make? The seller should send the money to make the buyer whole the second a claim has to be filed IMHO. The wait for payout from USPS or FEDEX/UPS is something for the seller to deal with to make themselves whole.

 

[Blues]

Whether the buyer asks or not, as stated previously, it's up to the seller to purchase insurance if he wants to protect himself against loss.

The buyer is held harmless until the package is delivered. If it is not delivered, or lost along the way, it is the seller's loss...insured or not.

Insurance is for the seller...which is why the buyer cannot file a claim against it.

Anything else is simply deflection, smoke and mirrors...unless an agreement has been made between the two parties at the time of the sale.

It's a bitter pill to swallow when things go sideways...but that's the way business should be conducted.

 

[crn3371]

Insurance is there to protect the seller, or at least that used to be the case. Back when G&S was the norm for selling I always purchased insurance when I sold items. The insurance protected me from not only actual delivery snafus, but it also protected me in case I was dealing with a dishonest buyer, he couldn’t file a dispute with PayPal claiming non delivery. Now that more and more sellers are demanding F&F the playing field has changed. Insurance is still a good idea in my opinion, but the advantage has now shifted to the seller. With F&F the seller has his money, the buyer has absolutely no recourse should things go sideways.

 

[King of the Cheese]

Insurance is there to protect the seller, or at least that used to be the case. Back when G&S was the norm for selling I always purchased insurance when I sold items. The insurance protected me from not only actual delivery snafus, but it also protected me in case I was dealing with a dishonest buyer, he couldn’t file a dispute with PayPal claiming non delivery. Now that more and more sellers are demanding F&F the playing field has changed. Insurance is still a good idea in my opinion, but the advantage has now shifted to the seller. With F&F the seller has his money, the buyer has absolutely no recourse should things go sideways.

The buyer has the same recourse with or without the insurance on the package because carriers aren’t going to pay the buyer for the claim.

In this day, f&f and no insurance should in no way be even hinted at as a negativity for a seller… UNLESS they ghost the buyer when the package doesn’t show up.

 

[Blues]

Personally, I would only purchase via F&F from someone I knew personally or who has a stellar reputation on the forums.

I have asked for F&F in the past during private transactions, and I expect that those folks I dealt with knew that I would stand by my obligation to get the item to them, or return their funds.

Losing one's good name, and reputation for integrity, will be hard to overcome...and should be avoided at all costs, imho.

 

[Quiet]

The forum rules are the seller is responsible for the package until it's delivered; it's literally written in the rules as part of the first rule for sellers:

• Insurance is the responsibility of the SELLER not the Buyer. This is for your protection.

If you don't pay for insurance as a buyer and it doesn't arrive, it's still the seller's problem and s/he needs to reimburse you. It doesn't matter that it was offered and not accepted by the buyer.


I always purchase it as a seller. As a buyer, I won't buy from anyone giving it as an option because (1) they clearly didn't read the rules so aren't trustworthy and (2) it's going to be a hassle to deal with them if any issue arises since from the start they're trying to cut corners and get out of their responsibilities.

I'm sorry, what? You won't buy from someone who offers insurance because they "clearly didn't read the rules"? There are multiple assumptions you're making here, but that's ok, please add me to your "Do Not Do Business With" list.

Let me clearly state: there is no "responsibility" to purchase insurance as a seller* here. Have you ever tried to file a claim on USPS insurance? How'd that work out for you?


* Perhaps you should reread those rules you think others haven't read, because as you can see, there's no requirement for purchasing insurance.

 

[Blues]

I'm sorry, what? You won't buy from someone who offers insurance because they "clearly didn't read the rules"? There are multiple assumptions you're making here, but that's ok, please add me to your "Do Not Do Business With" list.

Let me clearly state: there is no "responsibility" to purchase insurance as a seller* here. Have you ever tried to file a claim on USPS insurance? How'd that work out for you?


* Perhaps you should reread those rules you think others haven't read, because as you can see, there's no requirement for purchasing insurance.

So are you saying that if the item you sold didn't get to the buyer, you would not return the funds? Please make clear your position.

 

[Quiet]

So are you saying that if the item you sold didn't get to the buyer, you would not return the funds? Please make clear your position.

I absolutely would. Because that's what a stand-up person would do (which you can see from the red zero under my avatar, I am.). And that's my point. There are other ways to make someone whole if something happens in transit. Immediately offer a full refund, send another of the knife you might have, offer a different knife, etc. None of those things involve purchasing insurance.

 

[Blues]

I absolutely would. Because that's what a stand-up person would do (which you can see from the lack of red numbers under my avatar, I am.). And that's my point. There are other ways to make someone whole if something happens in transit. Immediately offer a full refund, send another of the knife you might have, offer a different knife, etc. None of those things involve purchasing insurance.

I'm fine with any of those options being provided to the buyer.

I don't always purchase insurance, though mostly I have on larger sales...but I always know that any loss is on me. Keeps it simple. And I'd hold any seller to the same obligation, unless an agreement to different terms was arrived at up front.