Titanium axe/'hawk

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Jun 3, 2015
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Hello all I've not posted here before, but I had a question for y'all. How do you feel about ti axes, the way they cut specifically. I'm not very familiar with ti edges, but from what I've read here on bf and other places they don't seem well suited to this kind of cutting implement. That could be way wrong though. In particular I was looking at a Mummert model, weighed in at 2lbs, with a 1" hammer pole. A packaxe basically. Does anyone have experience with ti axes/tomahawks/what have you? If so, how do they perform?
Thanks, Neal
 
Titanium was never designed to be used as blade material - its ability to hold an edge is dwarfed by even 440. Seeing all these titanium tools kind of bugs me in that regard. If you want a tool to work well, just use the right material.


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This would be the worst most pointless tool ever. If you want a lighter axe then get a real one,full metal axes are either too heavy or too light, or they just don't have the same forward heavy balance that a real axe does.
There's a reason there aren't many ( I'm assuming someone was dumb enough to make one ) titanium axes, and that's because real axes have naturally lightweight wooden hafts.
 
This would be the worst most pointless tool ever. If you want a lighter axe then get a real one,full metal axes are either too heavy or too light, or they just don't have the same forward heavy balance that a real axe does.
There's a reason there aren't many ( I'm assuming someone was dumb enough to make one ) titanium axes, and that's because real axes have naturally lightweight wooden hafts.

I totally agree. Axes need to be top/head heavy to be effective - the off-balance is so crucial to it being an effective tool.


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I totally agree. Axes need to be top/head heavy to be effective - the off-balance is so crucial to it being an effective tool.


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Sometimes these small metal ones such as the old imperial and utica's can have their place ( mine is decently choppy for what it is ) but when he said 2lb, that's ridiculous compared to the total weight of a 1-1/4 hatchet with sheath.
 
For what purpose? I don't see how titanium could be better than steel. My pack axes weigh much less than 2lbs, steel full tang axes from other makers are often around the 2lbs mark as well, so what purpose would titanium serve?
 
It was extensively carbidized, so it had some cutting edge, no doubt. It just seems like the wrong material for the intended application. Glad to hear that I got one right today. :D
Thanks guys, Neal
 
It was extensively carbidized, so it had some cutting edge, no doubt. It just seems like the wrong material for the intended application. Glad to hear that I got one right today. :D
Thanks guys, Neal

Carbidized edges will cut something fierce, especially fibrous material, but axes aren't primarily cutting implements, they're chopping instruments.
 
It was extensively carbidized, so it had some cutting edge, no doubt. It just seems like the wrong material for the intended application. Glad to hear that I got one right today. :D
Thanks guys, Neal

Cutting - yes.
But titanium will be easily deformated under inpact. And no carbides will change that.
 
Titanium was never designed to be used as blade material - its ability to hold an edge is dwarfed by even 440. Seeing all these titanium tools kind of bugs me in that regard. If you want a tool to work well, just use the right material.


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Of course a titanium knife can work just fine.

I have several MISSION knives and they do stellar service. Ive used my MISSION MPS Ti for many years for camp duty and for years used the MISSION MPU Ti for skinning deer. Its also my kayaking knife, as its impervious to the elements.

The MISSION knives work above and beyond, are easy to sharpen on diamond stones and hold an edge for adequate time. I have no problem zipping through several roe deer with no sharpening adn the knives are for all intents and purposes all but indestructible.

For my use when minimalist hiking, hunting, kayaking, they are ideal.

I am how ever with you in regards to most of the other titanium 'knives.'
With few exeptions, I have no regard to the vast majority of them.

The problem is that few have any real experience with the MISSION knives (they have an opinon but few have any user experience - Im not referring to you here but in general, that is so).

How ever a distinction has to be made.
When titanium at some point became wildly popular and became THE material to make knives of (heck, pry bars, tooth picks and tea cozies - everything hat to be titanium all of a sudden), a lot of knifemakers found out that the only material worthy of making titanium knives out of was extremely difficult to work.

The material being BETA Ti.

Few have the machines to work it and found that their machines simply gave up the spirit when trying to work Beta Ti.

But shoot, they HAD to make titanium knives since the dang things sold/sell like hotcakes!!

That being the prime mover, many switched to a LESSER GRADE of ti hence all those abominable 'carp' knives made out of titanium with the same capability as butter in regards to holding an edge.

That the vast vast VAST majority of titanium 'knives' are made of a titanium grade unsuitable for making knives because Beta ti is difficult for most to work, means that titanium has gotten the ill rep, which you (to a degree correctly) express.

AFAIK MISSION is one of the few - if not THE only- manufacturer to be able to work Beta ti in larger quantities.

Again, I dont disagree with you on the most of the horrid titanium knives, but the above distinction has to be made.

As for making other cutting implements out of titanium than knives - go check out MECHA's threads in the custom subforum/search his posts.

He makes and have written/demonstrated his titanium blades (swords) extensively.

As for the thread subject; an axe made of ti. Yes, it can seem strange, as the point of an axe/hatchet to some degree is the heft of the swing.

But some want/need as little weight as possible when en route and/or they are drawn to the titanium being impervious to the elements.

I can relate to some degree, as Im a fan of quality titanium implements (as if ya couldnt tell).
For kayaking/hiking, Ive bought a SOL titanium Jetboil, ti dishes, ti mugs, ti sporks, ti tent pegs, ti knives, russian titanium small military spade (for occasions calling for that) etc etc.

Were I to purchase a titanium axe or hawk, it would be the Schwatz Titanium (hammer, not spike) Hawk.

I would do it for the heck of it and to try it out. The arguments about the lack of weight in, of all things, an axe or a hawk are difficult to argue with.

May the Schwartz be with you:
https://www.google.dk/search?q=schw...ved=0ahUKEwjqiZSA8rLQAhXmAsAKHShmCQ0Q_AUIBigB

Until then and if...my favorite hawk will be this beard hawk made by my buddy to my specs:
 
Cutting - yes.
But titanium will be easily deformated under inpact. And no carbides will change that.
Nope, not so. See above.

Youd be hard pressed to find a tool less susceptible to destruction as a Mission knife.
 
I originally just posted this, not because I favor them, but had noticed a few cropping up here or there. The logic behind say a combat spike 'hawk being titanium makes some sense to me. However selling them as choppers leaves me scratching my head. I was in no way advocating for/against such implements. I'm a carpenter, I've used many styles and kinds of hatchets and axes, had an eye on a single sided splitting(shingles) and carving axe for awhile, they work in many ways as would a timber framing chisel.
I was simply curious if the ti versionsof axes etc. worked at all, or if anyone had experience using them. The head weight still seems to be a factor to me; however, I have used ti hammers to drive a few nails, and it's amazing how much lighter the tool can be and accomplish the job in the same number of blows(3" framing spikes, 3 blows total, same as my 22oz. flat-faced Estwing ). But that's an apple to oranges comparison, since we're talking of accomplishing different goals.
Doesn't Glen(n?) Klecker sell a ti version of his "Klax"? Not to get into it over that tool. I'm still just curious if they are worth a shit, according to people who have at least tried them out. I'm not gonna run out an buy one, I have an old double bitted I need to re-helve. That's my next project.
Thanks, Neal
 
I just discovered that such a thing as a titanium axe/hawk exists (such as the Schwartz 6Al-4V models) and I'm intrigued because I'd never thought that 6Al-4V could stand up to that kind of beating. I'm aware of what Mecha Mecha is doing but I believe he's making his blades out of Beta. I'd love to hear what he thinks of this, actually.

Has anyone had any experience using a titanium axe/hawk since this thread was written last year?
 
Most titanium alloys are really tough under impact. They have an odd "thud" that defies the loss in weight, and gives them a solid punch (it's related to natural shock absorbing ability). They also work-harden under use...a ti hatchet would only get seasoned/hardened and get better and better over time. All titanium alloys are quite different from each other while still retaining that unique feel, just like steels (iron alloys).

Thanks for carrying the torch, BladeScout BladeScout :]

"Beta ti" is just a titanium base alloy that has enough "beta phase stabilizing"alloying element percentage in it to allow a real heat-treatment that can produce a stable beta phase crystalline structure in the alloy and give it the specific qualities you're looking for. There are a handful of such alloys. Beta ti alloys are very sensitive to heat treatment, work, and the resulting qualities, many of which are excellent for a chopping blade!

It's not better than steel, but it's different and not bad at all either, and has some excellent unique qualities.
 
Sounds like you need to forge a traditional poll style tomahawk out of your material so we can test out how works. The weight savings of a nice beta ti hawk that could broken down in to two parts (wood handle and head) for carrying in pack would be the amazing. I volunteer to be a tester. In all seriousness, it would be a pretty cool project with which to see you experiment and your knowledge with the material would be invaluable.
 
Sounds like you need to forge a traditional poll style tomahawk out of your material so we can test out how works. The weight savings of a nice beta ti hawk that could broken down in to two parts (wood handle and head) for carrying in pack would be the amazing. I volunteer to be a tester. In all seriousness, it would be a pretty cool project with which to see you experiment and your knowledge with the material would be invaluable.

That would be great, Nobody. I've tried a few times to make a ti alloy hatchet head, but failed. Someday soon, though, success! BTW I saw your visitor message, but couldn't see how to respond. That piece of ti alloy you found sounds like it would make a killer blade, and the answer is a wide-open forge with oxidizing propane flame. Is that alloy piece you found a one-off, or is there more of it, if I may ask?
 
Seems like a titanium hawk would have the same problem as titanium hammers - just not enough mass to get the work done. There's no escaping inertia.
 
Seems like a titanium hawk would have the same problem as titanium hammers - just not enough mass to get the work done. There's no escaping inertia.

Every hammer-swinger I've talked to says ti framing hammers are awesome. I've used them too and prefer them to steel, as ti alloys generally lend themselves to easy and smooth (and ACCURATE) use in a hand tool. I know there is a youtube vid out there where someone is "explaining" why it won't work, but nevertheless, those who use them seem to love them and they drive nails just fine.

When folks are mulling over the qualities of titanium alloys, it often sounds like they're describing aluminum, but the two are completely different - a good ti alloy is a lot more like lightweight spring steel then it is like aluminum.

Many Ti alloys are plenty strong, hard and rigid enough to make a great hatchet, all it might take to be excellent is perhaps a subtle change in design. I'd say "a slightly longer handle" but many of the plate metal 'hawks look like they already have such long handles. Maybe a bit bigger axe head.

@David Stifle was splitting oak logs with his small ti sword no problem, and maybe @Lorien will chime in with what he thinks about the cutting abililty of light ti blades, and how it would apply to a hatchet. They have both used them on some nasty logs.
 
Every hammer-swinger I've talked to says ti framing hammers are awesome.

35 years in the trade here and all I talk to say they suck. Many bought one thinking it sounded cool but then quickly went back to their steel hammers. I've swung them and found them ineffective. Again - inertia. A 12oz. hammer will never ever strike like a 24 oz. hammer. If you can show me physics that says otherwise I'll have a look.
 
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