What makes a good SERE knife?

Hi all, I ment to say also I think a fixed blade design is a better deal also. It is simple and tried and true . it was not ment to bend or fold over. like a folding knife. as to the thickness I ment to say if you ever were to fall throught the ice and you needed to use your knife to stab into the ice to help pull yourslef out. I know for my self I do not want to try and open a knife and then try to stab into the ice and hang( Guards in this case could mean no hand sliping onto the sharp edge) onto it and try to pull myself out of the cold water. Thicker is better for this too. Also I am not a fan of addon guards. Make the guards part of the steel as it is being made.
Less moving parts, less to fail. Steel and the handle and the pins with some glue now that is simple.

I also think full tang is a good factor IR for some reason your handle scales get damaged and you have to use your knife with out them it will really be a lot nicer to have a full tang instead of a stick tang. Now the stick tang will make a difference to but most stick tangs are shorter. Again every advantage is just that an ADVANTAGE.

Bryan
 
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Not being a SERE type, I can only speak from second hand experience with them.

At a recent SAR training, we were fortunate to have a SERE guy (right) join us.

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He really liked the Siegle SAR-4, and our team is planning to buy him one before he deploys
with his Combat Rescue Squadron.

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Mind you; I am VERY biased :D !!

Just my $.02...
 
With regard to the fixed blade -folder question. The original Al Mar SERE knife. massive hunk of folding steel that it was, was designed by Nick Rowe, SERE expert of all SERE experts. The idea was that a guy is more likely to have a folder on him at all times than a fixed blade. With that said, I never got the point of a huge folder when a fixed blade of the same blade length (5" or so) is lighter, stronger and a whole lot more convenient.
 
River 8 that is a good design.

I'm also not impressed with the thickness of the RC5. I much prefer the thickness of the knife I had made for me by G.L. Drew. a bit over 3/16ths and distaly taperwed in both directions.

I don't care for guards much, at least not like those on the pilots knife. I modified mine by removing the top guard and reducing the bottom guard as well as reshaping it. Most of my other knives in this size range use integral guards or a dropped blade edge. Or as in the case of the G.L. Drew blade both. The pommell onnthis one is suitable for sricking if needed and the handle material is dense and hard (desert Ironwood). Being forged of 5160 it is tough as hell, but still easily takes and hols a very crisp sharp edge. It sees a lot of belt time in the woods.
 
A good SERE blade? Sharp, sturdy, and not huge. Nothing fancy, any mid size good fixed blade will do.
 
There have been a lot of good and well considered points brought up in this thread — really well considered points. I’m going to toss in a few thought of my own, most of which are in agreement with things that have already been said.

When I was in the Marine Corps, my job was to sneak and peek. Consequently, I went to several survival/SERE schools. Back then (in the sixties) they were called EE&S schools, and I’m sure some things have changed since then, but I imagine that most of the principles are still the same. One thing the instructors were very positive about was knives. Positive, but not in agreement: every single one of them had a different idea of what was the best type of knife to use (not that we had a lot of choices back then), and how best to use it. One thing they seemed to agree on though, was don’t use it if you don’t have to in an evasion situation, because it leaves tell-tale marks. In a survival situation though, it’s a different story. In a survival situation you’re depending on your knife for almost everything we talk about on this board, such as shelter making, traps, fires, food, etc.. Oh, and digging. They pointed out that you’d be using it for everything from digging holes to digging grubs out of wood. Thicker, stronger blades are recommended here.

Some instructors advocated shorter blades, like the pilot’s survival knife, some were sold on longer blades like the Ka-Bar, and one preached machete’s, even for snowy terrain. Reliable was something they all preached. Forget fancy: strong, simple and reliable is what you want; that knife can be your life.

I carried, at various times, all kinds of knives. Had one of the pilot’s survival knives for awhile. I liked it well enough, but it wasn’t perfect (for me). Carried a Ka-Bar for almost nine years and, while I thought it was a very good knife, it wasn’t perfect, either. Then I traded one of the guys for an East German (if I remember correctly — definitely Soviet Block though) knife that I really liked. It was about six inches long, probably about 3/16th of an inch thick, and uglier than sin. There was no pretense of fit and finish on that thing: it looked like it had been punched out of a plate of steel, really roughly ground, and had some kind of plastic/hard rubber slab scales pinned on. The guards were just punched out of thinner metal (al la Ka-Bar). I’ve never seen another quite like it since, but it was my favorite. That sucker was strong, and just made for really tough use. It would have been perfect for SERE situations. I don’t know who “appropriated” it, but I hope it served them as well as it did me.

All this has given me some pretty definite ideas of what I think a SERE/survival knife should be. Remember, all of us will have different opinions on what constitutes a knife of this type: here are mine. I want a knife with a blade of about six inches, around 3/16th thick, with a blade width of 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 inches, no fuller, drop point, solid angled guards top and bottom (we used to bend the guards on out Ka-Bars, and it made a world of difference in handling), micarta handle slabs, a protruding pommel, and I’d want this beast made out of 1095. This thing would be kind of a cross between a BK-2, a Ka-Bar, the pilot’s survival knife and some of the things I’ve seen from some of our makers here. Actually, I rather like the Warthorn that Mistwalker designed, but it’s not quite there.

Sorry if this was long and rambling. I was watching a football game while I wrote it.

By the way, if anyone knows what the East German knife might have been (there were a number of them floating around back then), please let me know.
 
Have you guys ever read any SERE scenarios that have happened historically?

Check out Chris Ryan from SAS in Gulf War I.

Check out Lone Survivor by Marcus Luttrell.

Check out Five Years to Freedom by James Rowe.

Based upon the historical context of what has been required in battlefield SERE scenarios I don't see a lot of knife usage.
 
titt,

Thanks for coming up with that, but no, it wasn't anywhere near that nice looking. I have the feeling that it was WW2 vintage (hard to tell with some of their stuff). It had a wider blade, the handle was straighter, and the guard was about the same length on the top as on the bottom. I can't tell, but the handle could be the same kind of material. The one I had came with a really beefy leather sheath.

I think the one you're showing is much, much newer.
 
I'm thinking something rugged, but small enough to be carried easily. Here are two knives designed for SERE, the Al Mar SERE Operator and RAT RC-5. They could not be more different. The only thing they have in common is they both have 5" blades. The Al Mar is light, sharp and pointed. It carries flat and unobtrusively. It is made of S30V steel with some kind of synthetic handles. It feels more weapon like than the RC-5, which is .25" thick 1095 steel. The RC has a saber grind and weighs a pound, which is very heavy for a 5" blade knife. The RC-5 can chop, baton, dig, and do all those noisy things you don't want to be doing when guys with machine guns are looking for you. It's a heck of a survival knife, though.

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The Ranger RD4 is another rugged knife in 5160 steel. It's a bit lighter than the RC and with a proper sheath, it could be a contender.

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The Army spent a lot of time and money developing a knife for air crewmen and soldiers. It's the Gerber LMF II. 12C27 Sanvik steel, an electrically insulated handle, serrations, and a hammer/glass breaker pommel are its main features. It comes with a triple retention jump proof sheath and a built in sharpener.

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I think that if I were an air crewman, I'd carry something about the size of the RC-4. Big enough to get the job done, small and easy to carry. Unless I was in the jungle. Then give me a machete.

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Just not into the whole RAT deal on this one.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure they are exemplary blades for given applications. And I am sure a SERE guy could make do just fine.

I would be curious to see a RAT 5 sitting next to the Pilots knife and see which they would pick up.
 
Just not into the whole RAT deal on this one.

Don't get me wrong, I am sure they are exemplary blades for given applications. And I am sure a SERE guy could make do just fine.

I would be curious to see a RAT 5 sitting next to the Pilots knife and see which they would pick up.

I just happened to have those RAT photos handy. Any good knife with a 4" to 5" blade would do. I carried the pilots survival knife for years. The RC-5 is just too big and heavy for an air crewman's knife, IMO. But the RC-4 or Bark River Bravo-1 or Ritter survival would all work. Even a good SAK folder would do. Lot of utility there.
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I just got a Ka-Bar BK7 in a trade and though I have yet to use it, it would probably be my choice. The only downside is the sheath, which is merely adequate.
 
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