When is it time to ask for a deposit ????????

Aidenag said:
I cannot think of any other craft or trade where it's not expected to deposit or pay in full in advance for a custom piece.....

Solution for makers: (Lots of smart info)

Solution for buyers: (More savvy talk)
Click to expand...
Great perspectives. Thank you.

I deal with the same people: Makers and Collectors. Funny, in 15 years of doing this I've never, EVER, gotten burnt.

It's possible that those who are ready to support paying for professional photographs are well on their way to solid business skills. The ones who pop up negatively in the GB&U never approach me.

Good for ALL of us.

I don't ask for advance payment, but my LONNNGEST wait times are maybe 10 days from arrival to shipping back. (Guesstimating. And even those I can't remember.) Smaller chunks of $$ too.

However, I read the stories in the GB&U like I read the New York Post: Train wrecks. It's all trash and burn.
 
S. Clark said:
This is about the best post that has been made in my opinion. I too am confused about the negative disposition toward taking deposits.

I'd say if a buyer isn't comfortable paying a deposit, move on and buy from someone else or buy ready made knives. Seems common sense not to give a deposit to someone without a solid reputation, too. That is definitely something you have to earn or else as a maker you'll just get no business.

If a maker wants to require a deposit it doesn't mean they are a scam artist, it's totally his prerogative. Again the patron needs to use common sense and the maker needs to use common sense to know if he can ask for one at this point in his career and still get business.

Folks on here like Paul Long could ask for payment in full before even beginning work if he wanted and folks shouldn't bat an eye due to his outstanding reputation.
Click to expand...

Paul will not take a deposit and in most cases ships the finished product with a bill with it

People are welcome to run their business any way they like

Patrons can choose who they do business with also

I think what most do not understand that those of us that have been in this for decades have seen and heard all the stories and we have based our opinions on this
 
JParanee said:
Paul will not take a deposit and in most cases ships the finished product with a bill with it

People are welcome to run their business any way they like

Patrons can choose who they do business with also

I think what most do not understand that those of us that have been in this for decades have seen and heard all the stories and we have based our opinions on this
Click to expand...

Sure thing, I only mentioned Paul because his reputation positively precedes him, and if he wanted to he could ask for payment in full and I know that he would still get the same business.

I know that catastrophic life events can severely derail things, and I guess taking deposits from folks is a risk in that regard so I can see that side of things. Maybe small business insurance is an option. I'm sure there are more considerations that I just can't see due to my relatively small amount of time in the game as well.
 
JParanee said:
I think what most do not understand that those of us that have been in this for decades have seen and heard all the stories and we have based our opinions on this
Click to expand...


Joe I would just like to make one last point for those who are newer to the world of custom knives.........

When I was a newer and less experienced collector I was enthused, excited, when a maker asked me for a substantial deposit or full payment up-front.

In my naivety I felt that as he had asked me for a deposit, or payment in full, my knife was now a priority and would definitely get made. I felt special.
It never occurred to me that I was possibly financing his current builds for others.

I judged peoples financial and business commitment by my own standards and it never entered my mind that anything was amiss.

When a maker that ones admires accepts an order from you, one does feel special. Its natural to feel that way if you are a fan.
Then the request for a large deposit or full pre-payment comes in and you think "Excellent I am definitely getting this built now all is confirmed and settled."

Later on, not only does one have to deal with the financial loss, but also the huge disappointment and self chastising that you could be so naive as to be taken in by this. Then if you do ever receive the knife it has bad memories associated with it every time you hold it.

The reason seasoned collectors are so cagey about prepayments and deposits is because of harsh experience. Learn from the mistakes of others........its much cheaper!:)
 
This is my own very personal view and not intended to reflect on or impune others. I have read the countless excuses given by some and they just don't wash with me. A man's word is really just about all he has that has any lasting value, and should last him and serve him well for life..................IF he takes care of it.

If I make a commitment to do something...anything, then it will be done, as agreed, on or before the deadline come hell or high water. The only excuse I can think of that would alter my philosophy would be my death, or being confined to a hospital. I have lived these values all my life and my family understands that sometimes they have to stand in second place. I think the key is DON'T COMMIT IF YOU ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU CAN DELIVER.

Deposits are not necessary if you live up to these standards. Oh!, and don't do business with ass holes;)

Paul
 
sheathmaker said:
This is my own very personal view and not intended to reflect on or impune others. I have read the countless excuses given by some and they just don't wash with me. A man's word is really just about all he has that has any lasting value, and should last him and serve him well for life..................IF he takes care of it.

If I make a commitment to do something...anything, then it will be done, as agreed, on or before the deadline come hell or high water. The only excuse I can think of that would alter my philosophy would be my death, or being confined to a hospital. I have lived these values all my life and my family understands that sometimes they have to stand in second place. I think the key is DON'T COMMIT IF YOU ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU CAN DELIVER.

Deposits are not necessary if you live up to these standards. Oh!, and don't do business with ass holes;)

Paul
Click to expand...

Paul your work ethic is legendary and very well deserved. You are the standard that we should all judge ourselves by.

By the way........

Oh!, and don't do business with ass holes;)
Click to expand...

Greatest signature line ever!:D

I look very forward to seeing you at Blade Sir:)
 
sheathmaker said:
This is my own very personal view and not intended to reflect on or impune others. I have read the countless excuses given by some and they just don't wash with me. A man's word is really just about all he has that has any lasting value, and should last him and serve him well for life..................IF he takes care of it.

If I make a commitment to do something...anything, then it will be done, as agreed, on or before the deadline come hell or high water. The only excuse I can think of that would alter my philosophy would be my death, or being confined to a hospital. I have lived these values all my life and my family understands that sometimes they have to stand in second place. I think the key is DON'T COMMIT IF YOU ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU CAN DELIVER.

Deposits are not necessary if you live up to these standards. Oh!, and don't do business with ass holes;)

Paul
Click to expand...

Bravo Pappy :)
 
Ben Seward said:
I don't solicit a deposit unless for pricey materials. I have had a customer pay in advance without my asking them...he got his knives. I don't like taking money up front because too much can happen. I don't want to take an injury and have to pay someone deposit money back. If I was injured there would be plenty else on my mind:( Money could get tight and I'd be bound to make a knife that was paid for...this is where the hardest knife to make is one that's paid for. In the situation described in the OP a deposit would totally have been in order. Even with a deposit the maker could still be getting stuck by a back out, especially if the knife wasn't easily marketable. I personally don't see the need for a deposit to place an order. I like to finalize everything before starting the project. That way price, materials, and any changes the customer might want are accounted for. If they cancel at that point I really don't worry about it.
Click to expand...

I like this model...wisdom from youth :)
 
Personally I don't see a problem with deposits. It depends on the person's integrity and an honest self evaluation of their ability to follow through and deliver on time. I hardly take any orders and make knives in what little amount of free time I've had. I have had 2 separate people tell me they wanted a knife with the finest burl handle I had then when it came time to attach the handle I would follow up and confirm they wanted the knife still, never heard back. I would have been pretty bothered if I had gone ahead and used some handle material that cost me upwards of $80 to have the buyer back out.
 
Pappy laying down the wisdom.
 
How about instead of a deposit the knifemaker sends over a contract. If someone's word isn't good enough, their signature will be sufficient for small claims court. Put an early termination fee in there.
 
Panthera tigris said:
How about instead of a deposit the knifemaker sends over a contract. If someone's word isn't good enough, their signature will be sufficient for small claims court. Put an early termination fee in there.
Click to expand...

With most orders being out of state and some even out of country that might prove to be fruitless
 
Panthera tigris said:
How about instead of a deposit the knifemaker sends over a contract. If someone's word isn't good enough, their signature will be sufficient for small claims court. Put an early termination fee in there.
Click to expand...

not to mention; eww! The only lawyers I like are Roger and my buddy Rory. No disrespect to anyone here, of course
 
sheathmaker said:
This is my own very personal view and not intended to reflect on or impune others. I have read the countless excuses given by some and they just don't wash with me. A man's word is really just about all he has that has any lasting value, and should last him and serve him well for life..................IF he takes care of it.

If I make a commitment to do something...anything, then it will be done, as agreed, on or before the deadline come hell or high water. The only excuse I can think of that would alter my philosophy would be my death, or being confined to a hospital. I have lived these values all my life and my family understands that sometimes they have to stand in second place. I think the key is DON'T COMMIT IF YOU ARE NOT ABSOLUTELY SURE YOU CAN DELIVER.

Deposits are not necessary if you live up to these standards. Oh!, and don't do business with ass holes;)

Paul
Click to expand...

Hey Paul,

That you still have the fire in your belly to get it right the first time, live up to your promises and be the best at the things you choose to do always makes me proud to call you friend....you are that, as well as an inspiration and an icon of awesome!

I have never understood how people who are self-employed could state that "family comes first" when it's the paying customers that feed the whole family. If you take care of your customers like you take care of your family, everything should work out alright.

Since most people would call me an a-hole(and they might not be wrong, now and again) we both know that you are not averse to doing business with them...they just gotta be "your kind" of a-hole.

This is not a knife collectors vs knife makers topic....this is a much wider ranging one that begs the question...."do you live up to your word?"

It is applicable to both parties, and my personal answer is that "I do my best or will die trying".

EVERYONE dicks the dog at some point....it is how you recover from your mistakes and move forward, not repeating them that defines who you are as a person.

A maker who winds up lagging on an order with me(talking about a 6 month or better lag) gets a lot of goodwill from me by a solid "I'm sorry, no excuses" and maybe throwing in a freebie(sticker, t-shirt, pocket wrench, hat....). I look at that maker as someone with the same flaws we all have, but just a solid person and doing their best to keep me happy.

Other than perfection, it doesn't take much, lol!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thank you Steven for pointing out that this was never a collector against maker thread

I would hope that by now everyone knows I'm the makers friend and my goal has always been to promote custom knives and my friends and bring customs to the forefront of the knife world

When Mike and I were talking about what had happened to him I gave him my opinion ..... but that is just that one mans opinion

I wanted him to see what the collective group thought and this thread has stayed that

Thank you all

My only advice

To makers ....run your business like a business and treat customers as you would want to be treated

Collectors .... be understanding and fair but as always .... Caveat emptor ....let the buyer beware :)
 
Kohai999 said:
Hey Paul,

That you still have the fire in your belly to get it right the first time, live up to your promises and be the best at the things you choose to do always makes me proud to call you friend....you are that, as well as an inspiration and an icon of awesome!

I have never understood how people who are self-employed could state that "family comes first" when it's the paying customers that feed the whole family. If you take care of your customers like you take care of your family, everything should work out alright.

Since most people would call me an a-hole(and they might not be wrong, now and again) we both know that you are not averse to doing business with them...they just gotta be "your kind" of a-hole.

This is not a knife collectors vs knife makers topic....this is a much wider ranging one that begs the question...."do you live up to your word?"

It is applicable to both parties, and my personal answer is that "I do my best or will die trying".

EVERYONE dicks the dog at some point....it is how you recover from your mistakes and move forward, not repeating them that defines who you are as a person.

A maker who winds up lagging on an order with me(talking about a 6 month or better lag) gets a lot of goodwill from me by a solid "I'm sorry, no excuses" and maybe throwing in a freebie(sticker, t-shirt, pocket wrench, hat....). I look at that maker as someone with the same flaws we all have, but just a solid person and doing their best to keep me happy.

Other than perfection, it doesn't take much, lol!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

this is, far and away, the most important post you've written, (that I've read, and imo).

quoted for posterity, and I mean it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top