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01 Vs 1050
- Thread starter R.W.Clark
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- Jan 25, 2000
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Ron,
Stick with the O1! I personally don't think that 1050 would offer any performance increases on the style of blades that you are talking about. Your O1 takes and holds a wicked edge, is easily sharpened and the temper lines are very visible. I, for one, and extremely impressed with this application. What more could anyone want in a carbon steel utility style knife?
1050 seems to be used quite a bit in Japanese style knives by many custom makers. One theory might be that since alot of swords seem to use 1050, it is just a natural continuation to use it on smaller fixed blades as well. Must have pretty good ductility and toughness. However, I will take edge holding over these characteristics in a utility blade anyday.
While being far from an expert in all things steel, my vote goes for 01
Stick with the O1! I personally don't think that 1050 would offer any performance increases on the style of blades that you are talking about. Your O1 takes and holds a wicked edge, is easily sharpened and the temper lines are very visible. I, for one, and extremely impressed with this application. What more could anyone want in a carbon steel utility style knife?
1050 seems to be used quite a bit in Japanese style knives by many custom makers. One theory might be that since alot of swords seem to use 1050, it is just a natural continuation to use it on smaller fixed blades as well. Must have pretty good ductility and toughness. However, I will take edge holding over these characteristics in a utility blade anyday.
While being far from an expert in all things steel, my vote goes for 01
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It's my understanding that most of the makers who use 1050 in their Japanese style knives, do so because it is very easy to get a visible temper line. Never, do you hear that it is because of the magical edgeholding abilities of 1050. If you are able to get a good, visible temper line using O1, then stick with it. O1 is great steel. I'm still trying to figure out how you are able to get that nice visible temper line using the O1. I thought it was supposed to almost impossible to get the line to show up that nicely. ???
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- Apr 30, 2001
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I have been putting alot of thought into the subject over the past month or so. In stainless I have decided to ditch ATS for S30V, but I have had a much harder time with my carbon steel choice.
Basically I am looking for any reason to make the switch. None have appeared. I guess it really comes down to my own vanity in searching for that "lost" hamon style. The reason that it is said that you can not get a figured hamon in 01 is do to the Maganese (sp?) in tool steels. It has a desire to pull and even out heat in a blade causing the temper line to be rather straight and unfigured. I have pushed the limits about as far as I can without shattering every single blade. The best I can get is a very wavy line. They are coming out with one wave every inch or so with a peak to valley differance of about 1/2"-5/8". With 10XX steels the heat stays where you put it and with the use of clay you can get any shape that the mind can dream up. I am even going to try to put in a flame patterned hamon pretty soon.
So without any proof that 1050 is a better performer it is wise to stick with 01 for the M.A.U.s. However I am planing on getting into traditional tanto and aikuchi. For those I will use 1050. After all, for those looks are more important than overall performance. I just don't foresee anyone using a traditional piece for EDC.
Thanks for the input.
OH, can't be done just means that no one has done it yet. So we all know now that 01 CAN take and hold a bold and figured temper line.
Basically I am looking for any reason to make the switch. None have appeared. I guess it really comes down to my own vanity in searching for that "lost" hamon style. The reason that it is said that you can not get a figured hamon in 01 is do to the Maganese (sp?) in tool steels. It has a desire to pull and even out heat in a blade causing the temper line to be rather straight and unfigured. I have pushed the limits about as far as I can without shattering every single blade. The best I can get is a very wavy line. They are coming out with one wave every inch or so with a peak to valley differance of about 1/2"-5/8". With 10XX steels the heat stays where you put it and with the use of clay you can get any shape that the mind can dream up. I am even going to try to put in a flame patterned hamon pretty soon.
So without any proof that 1050 is a better performer it is wise to stick with 01 for the M.A.U.s. However I am planing on getting into traditional tanto and aikuchi. For those I will use 1050. After all, for those looks are more important than overall performance. I just don't foresee anyone using a traditional piece for EDC.
Thanks for the input.
OH, can't be done just means that no one has done it yet. So we all know now that 01 CAN take and hold a bold and figured temper line.
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- Apr 30, 2001
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Heres a shot of about all I can get out of 01. I can get more extreme on the peaks and valleys, but one a blade this size anything larger starts to look a little silly.
<a href=http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/hamonwavy.jpg><img src="http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/hamonwavy.jpg" width=240 height=160 border=4></a>
<a href=http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/hamonwavy.jpg><img src="http://www.hunting-pictures.com/members/R.W.Clark/hamonwavy.jpg" width=240 height=160 border=4></a>
Cliff Stamp
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1050 would be far tougher and more ductile, however unless you are seeing premature fractures in your O1 blades, this isn't really a benefit. For swords it could easily be more of an issue, for example if you wanted resistance to heavy blade on blade type impacts. 1050 should however be cheaper to buy and far easier to machine.
-Cliff
-Cliff
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1050 is cheaper, but we are talking about such a low number to begin with that it isn't really an issue. I have had a couple blades crack on me (I am getting a good ear for that little "tink" sound), but what do you mean by premature fracturing.
For anything longer than 6" or so, I don't think that my method would be advisable. These pieces are wound up pretty tight anything longer just would not have any impact resistance.
Cliff, would you be interested in giving one of these a once over? I think this is one time when a little science might be advisable.
For anything longer than 6" or so, I don't think that my method would be advisable. These pieces are wound up pretty tight anything longer just would not have any impact resistance.
Cliff, would you be interested in giving one of these a once over? I think this is one time when a little science might be advisable.
Cliff Stamp
BANNED
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- Oct 5, 1998
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Basically I meant the blade breaking by fracture under a stress that you don't want it to, judgement obviously comes into play here as you can break anything if you hit it hard enough or bend it far enough. It comes down to what you want the steel to be able to do, where you think the performance is sensible and what tradeoffs you think are functional.
Some of the really tough steels won't fracture at all, and even if you really beat on them or bend them, they just deform, and the most you can do it make them rip by bending them too much. O1 is generally regarded as a tough steel, and its basically on the border where when you go above it to the really tough steels, you are getting into materials optomized specifically for toughness to the serious lack of other abilities. Most of the complaints about durability with O1 come from blades at 62-63RC and you are going to be getting into problems with ductility there.
There are tradeoffs of course for every advantage, while 1050 should be really tough and ductile, I would not expect any great performance from its wear resistance as it has no alloy carbides at all and it will patina very rapidly. I am pretty sure Cold Steel uses 1050 in some of there larger blades. But then again at a decent hardness, the edge retention on most materials will be high enough, especially for a hard use chopping class blade. As well of course, the sharpenability will be very high for 1050, moreso than O1, however not that I would call the latter difficult.
Sure I would be interested in looking at something if you wanted some feedback, just let me know along what general guidelines you have for blade usage, so I can make sure to cover those bases.
-Cliff
Some of the really tough steels won't fracture at all, and even if you really beat on them or bend them, they just deform, and the most you can do it make them rip by bending them too much. O1 is generally regarded as a tough steel, and its basically on the border where when you go above it to the really tough steels, you are getting into materials optomized specifically for toughness to the serious lack of other abilities. Most of the complaints about durability with O1 come from blades at 62-63RC and you are going to be getting into problems with ductility there.
There are tradeoffs of course for every advantage, while 1050 should be really tough and ductile, I would not expect any great performance from its wear resistance as it has no alloy carbides at all and it will patina very rapidly. I am pretty sure Cold Steel uses 1050 in some of there larger blades. But then again at a decent hardness, the edge retention on most materials will be high enough, especially for a hard use chopping class blade. As well of course, the sharpenability will be very high for 1050, moreso than O1, however not that I would call the latter difficult.
Sure I would be interested in looking at something if you wanted some feedback, just let me know along what general guidelines you have for blade usage, so I can make sure to cover those bases.
-Cliff