1 to go with the end of the World Gun question..Night Vision or Thermal ?

1whobuys

1whobuys

Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Messages
3,879
OK, I've had some really nice 3rd Gen NV before and lately I have been looking to upgrade.
Do you go with the new Gen 4 (green tint) or the latest Gen 3 WPT (black and white) or something like an ATN Thor 640 5X Thermal?

Anyone ever used any modern day high end Thermal, what are your thoughts? (other than it cost too much)
 
Chuck, if end of world even remotely indicates end of battery supply, the nod should go to night vision but I couldn't tell you which on the gen 3 vs gen 4.
From the limited experiences I have had with both, I prefer night vision with an optional infrared flashlight for the times you need a little extra visibility, but keep in mind it can be seen by anyone with NV.
Foggy or smoky conditions definitely give thermals the advantage, but it has to be something you can see heatwaves through.
Believe it or not, a $2.00 space blanket can pretty well obscure a bad guy from your thermal view if he is completely covered, except for maybe where he touched it on the outer surface, unlike hollywood would have you believe, there is no x-ray capability for thermals to see through walls etc.
Bare footprints or handprints can be seen when very fresh and still warm, but tracks from shoes/boots don't generate enough heat to see much if anything.
Also, if the background or environment is between 90-100* it can make spotting bad guys pretty difficult with thermals, but a non-issue with NV.
On top of that, thermals are much harder on my eyes than night vison for longer than a few minutes, so IMHO, newer/more expensive does not automatically equal better.
The $25k combo would be cool if one wanted to spend that much and use the end of the world excuse to justify it with the GF or wife :p.
 
As far as flir its nice but if you're using a battery operated unit and not something that has a 110 charger of that nature the flir wont last as long. Flir is great if you're looking for hiding subjects, but between the 2 I like nvgs more. This is for a hand held unit on foot. I will take flir on an apache any day/night
 
my opion doesent mean much being that i havent use much night vision, but i know that the FLIR is pretty awesome id get one if i had the extra cash layin around
 
Thermal is an advantage, especially with higher caliber rifles, as you could engage through walls(if the scope is powerful enough). A high end thermal is $50,000+ so there's that to think about too. I would go with the most robust design you can get, something that has been battle proven, as you won't be able to replace parts etc if it's TEOTW. I would stick with a PVS14, or PVS7. Sounds like you may have already had one of those though.
 
Neither both run on batteries, night vision is useless in the day and unless you are trained in night combat and tactics you should only fight in the day.
 
Mr.LCV said:
Neither both run on batteries, night vision is useless in the day and unless you are trained in night combat and tactics you should only fight in the day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's about the worst advice possible. Of course NODs are useless during the day, hence the name Night OpticallDevice. Fighting at night is not rocket surgery, and odds are pretty good most people you encounter have no training in daytime operations either, so should they should just hide in the fetal position somewhere?

Don't use them because they use batteries? Seriously? Batteries are cheap, have long, stable shelf life, and are compact, allowing for large quantities to be stored. Rechargeable batteries can be bought and charged via solar panels. My NODs use batteries, my flashlights, some of my optics(EOtech and Aimpoint), my GPS devices, and many other things. I am not giving up these items because they use batteries.
 
The people who survive when SHTF will be those who are prepared and those who are trained to take what they need im not saying night combat is comletley out of the question, but unless you have the defendable positon and you are the one with the intial surprise, then you better off evading the best way to survive a gunfight is to not be in one, and its alot easier to avoid one in the night why put yourself and loved ones at risk when you can evade? Im all for shooting but you have to choose your battles. sorry you think im hiding but if you assume i cant fight when i have to you are mistaken. Id rather not kill fellow americans if i dont have to, i would if i have to but better to evade. Im a strong supporter of open sights. Sorry to upset you wasnt my intention.

Cavalry_Scout said:
Yeah, that's about the worst advice possible. Of course NODs are useless during the day, hence the name Night OpticallDevice. Fighting at night is not rocket surgery, and odds are pretty good most people you encounter have no training in daytime operations either, so should they should just hide in the fetal position somewhere?

Don't use them because they use batteries? Seriously? Batteries are cheap, have long, stable shelf life, and are compact, allowing for large quantities to be stored. Rechargeable batteries can be bought and charged via solar panels. My NODs use batteries, my flashlights, some of my optics(EOtech and Aimpoint), my GPS devices, and many other things. I am not giving up these items because they use batteries.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Mr.LCV said:
The people who survive when SHTF will be those who are prepared and those who are trained to take what they need im not saying night combat is comletley out of the question, but unless you have the defendable positon and you are the one with the intial surprise, then you better off evading the best way to survive a gunfight is to not be in one, and its alot easier to avoid one in the night why put yourself and loved ones at risk when you can evade? Im all for shooting but you have to choose your battles. sorry you think im hiding but if you assume i cant fight when i have to you are mistaken. Id rather not kill fellow americans if i dont have to, i would if i have to but better to evade. Im a strong supporter of open sights. Sorry to upset you wasnt my intention.
Click to expand...

I'm not upset, just calling it as I see it. Night operations are almost exclusively offensive in nature, I would not be out at night to avoid a fight, if that was my goal, I'd stay home. I'm making no assumptions about anyone, merely commenting on what you said in your previous post.
 
If I had the money for NODs or FLIR I'm pretty sure I would spend it in other gear first. How is the lag time in the thermal imaging device vs nigh vision? I think I would personnaly go thermal becaus it can help find targets in brush and will work 27/7.
 
Thermal definately has the advantage of working day or night where as night vision is limited to low light night time use. Just my opinion though. I hage used both to hunt coyotes and I much prefer the thermal.

Garth
 
I'm going with the ATN 320 4.5X (60HZ) but I am preparing to upgrade to the ATN 640 5X just in case it doesn't give me the range I want.
I will pick up a New PVS14 later to help cover the field.
I went with a weapons sight on the Thermal as I think that will give me the most coverage all around.
The ATN's rated recoil is all the way up to a bolt action .50bmg, I am looking for a LMT or a Knights to mount it too.
I just picked up 250 123 batteries from Battery Junction, great prices and just in case you didn't know..
Panasonic, Sure Fire, EverReady and RayOvac are all US made by Panasonic.
I will be getting in to the RSR123 rechargeables soon (18650's) with a solar charger and I already have a portable Honda in the bug out kit.
I try to standardize my equipment, AA's, 123's, .22, 9mm, 45acp. .556, 7.62, .50bmg my only odd balls are .454 casull, 45-70 and .475 Limbaugh
 
Last edited:
use muzzle flash, that's what I do.
 
1whobuys said:
I'm going with the ATN 320 4.5X (60HZ) but I am preparing to upgrade to the ATN 640 5X just in case it doesn't give me the range I want.
I will pick up a New PVS14 later to help cover the field.
I went with a weapons sight on the Thermal as I think that will give me the most coverage all around.
The ATN's rated recoil is all the way up to a bolt action .50bmg, I am looking for a LMT or a Knights to mount it too.
I just picked up 250 123 batteries from Battery Junction, great prices and just in case you didn't know..
Panasonic, Sure Fire, EverReady and RayOvac are all US made by Panasonic.
I will be getting in to the RSR123 rechargeables soon (18650's) with a solar charger and I already have a portable Honda in the bug out kit.
I try to standardize my equipment, AA's, 123's, .22, 9mm, 45acp. .556, 7.62, .50bmg my only odd balls are .454 casull, 45-70 and .475 Limbaugh
Click to expand...

This man understands...what you are missing though is an IR laser:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top