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1050/1065 camp knife
- Thread starter MilliePop
- Start date
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- Nov 14, 2005
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Pro: it has enough carbon to harden if you do it right
Con: it doesn't have enough carbon to make it "easy"
i made lots of knives out of 1065, it was my first steel.
Con: it doesn't have enough carbon to make it "easy"
i made lots of knives out of 1065, it was my first steel.
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2004
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- 1,363
I practiced forging with 1050, it is cheap firstly. If you mess up you wont be sorry too much. Take another piece and work again without looking back..
It can be quenched in water/brine somewhat safely, so you dont need expensive quench oils or a neat HT setup.
It is easy to forge...
I found it very useful to be a beginners practice steel. Also at the end if you made it right you can have tough, big knives, performing not so bad...
Emre
It can be quenched in water/brine somewhat safely, so you dont need expensive quench oils or a neat HT setup.
It is easy to forge...
I found it very useful to be a beginners practice steel. Also at the end if you made it right you can have tough, big knives, performing not so bad...
Emre
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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1050 is a bit on the low side, but will work. 1065 will make a super camp knife. The only con is edge holding. It will be easy to re-sharpen, but will need to be touched up more often than a higher carbon or alloy steel.
For what you have said you want to do in the differential hardening, 1065 is right on the money. Many katana are made with 1060/1065 and brine quenched. It is also popular for big Bowies and camp knives.
Stacy
For what you have said you want to do in the differential hardening, 1065 is right on the money. Many katana are made with 1060/1065 and brine quenched. It is also popular for big Bowies and camp knives.
Stacy
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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1065, being a simple low alloy steel,and at .65% carbon the blade will be tough, but wear resistance will be lower. You asked for the pros and cons. The wearability is a con. Not that it is bad, just a lesser attribute than the toughness.
Spending a couple weeks with some good metallurgy books will both open your eyes and answer many of your questions.
Stacy
Spending a couple weeks with some good metallurgy books will both open your eyes and answer many of your questions.
Stacy
- Joined
- May 4, 2001
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MilliePop, as Stacy stated you might want to do some more research in the metallurgy books or even on the steel makers websites.
Yes a blade heat treated as you stated will take a good edge and be tough as heck. However, 1050/1065 in the high 50's RC, will not have the edge holding of say O1 (or even 1084) at the same hardness . Hardness and wear resistance are not the same thing (although they are linked).
Hope this helped a little,
Steve
Yes a blade heat treated as you stated will take a good edge and be tough as heck. However, 1050/1065 in the high 50's RC, will not have the edge holding of say O1 (or even 1084) at the same hardness . Hardness and wear resistance are not the same thing (although they are linked).
Hope this helped a little,
Steve
Any recommendations? What contributes to better wear resistance in 1085 that is missing in 1065 if they are both hardened to the same rc? And yes it helps alot.
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I'm not knowledgeable person on this subject but as far as I know steel has to have at least %.83 carbon rate to become eutectoid steel, means enough carbon compared to Fe. Theoretically with a proper HT you will have enough carbon to convert all the structure to martensite, no iron is left outside. Under that percentage you'll have martensite also but without enough carbon the martensite is ... lets say %60 of the structure (I dont know the exact rate sorry). You'll have a mixed structure, may mean you will have a tougher blade but the wear resistance (comes from martensite + carbides) is lower than any eutectoid or hypo-eutectoid steel.
You try to search bladeforums from google with the phrase "site:bladeforums.com martensite eutectoid". You'll find a wast information on this subject mainly from Mete and Kevin Cashen...
Hope this helps
Emre
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith
ilmarinen - MODERATOR
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Emre,
You meant "eutectoid or hyper-eutectoid steel". Hypo-eutectoid is what 1050/1065 is, meaning below the eutectoid.
Other than that, you explained it pretty well.
There is not enough carbon to go around, so some of the iron stays as ferrite.The unused ferrite is distributed among the martensite.
This gives a sort of situation that could be visualized as a material made of rubber balls and ball bearings. In 1060, the rubber (iron) is real tough, and the bearings (martensite) are real hard. The rubber will wear down more easily than the bearings,though. However, the rubber will take much more abuse than the bearings, and not break off .
Now if you add in some really good glue, to lock the whole mess together, you have added an alloy. This is what 5160 does. The extra iron gets tied up with the chromium, making chromium carbides, and the whole material gets even tougher. But the martensite is still the same percentage as the 1060. It is just in a tougher matrix.
Choosing steel types can be confusing in the beginning. That is why most advisers suggest using a steel that falls in the middle of most ranges.....like 1084, O-1, 5160. These steels will perform most tasks just fine with a little ease in forging and HT. As you add more alloy to the mix, you get more detailed HT and forging requirements. You should pick one that you can get easily, order enough of it to make about ten knives, and use only that steel until you have used it up. Then you will have a little understanding of its properties. Some makers never move on to another steel, and specialize in perfecting the HT to get the absolute most from their chosen steel.
Not trying to sell anyone on 1084, but as the eutectoid, it is the simplest steel that has a full martensitic structure upon proper quench. Knife blades are made from martensite.100% martensite is as much as you can get. When annealed fully it forms 100% pearlite, which is as soft as you can get for sanding/filing. It isn't the Holy Grail of steels, but it is as simple and good as anyone could ask for to learn on.Any knife properly made with 1084 will be a good knife as far as edge retention, hardness, and toughness are concerned.
Stacy
You meant "eutectoid or hyper-eutectoid steel". Hypo-eutectoid is what 1050/1065 is, meaning below the eutectoid.
Other than that, you explained it pretty well.
There is not enough carbon to go around, so some of the iron stays as ferrite.The unused ferrite is distributed among the martensite.
This gives a sort of situation that could be visualized as a material made of rubber balls and ball bearings. In 1060, the rubber (iron) is real tough, and the bearings (martensite) are real hard. The rubber will wear down more easily than the bearings,though. However, the rubber will take much more abuse than the bearings, and not break off .
Now if you add in some really good glue, to lock the whole mess together, you have added an alloy. This is what 5160 does. The extra iron gets tied up with the chromium, making chromium carbides, and the whole material gets even tougher. But the martensite is still the same percentage as the 1060. It is just in a tougher matrix.
Choosing steel types can be confusing in the beginning. That is why most advisers suggest using a steel that falls in the middle of most ranges.....like 1084, O-1, 5160. These steels will perform most tasks just fine with a little ease in forging and HT. As you add more alloy to the mix, you get more detailed HT and forging requirements. You should pick one that you can get easily, order enough of it to make about ten knives, and use only that steel until you have used it up. Then you will have a little understanding of its properties. Some makers never move on to another steel, and specialize in perfecting the HT to get the absolute most from their chosen steel.
Not trying to sell anyone on 1084, but as the eutectoid, it is the simplest steel that has a full martensitic structure upon proper quench. Knife blades are made from martensite.100% martensite is as much as you can get. When annealed fully it forms 100% pearlite, which is as soft as you can get for sanding/filing. It isn't the Holy Grail of steels, but it is as simple and good as anyone could ask for to learn on.Any knife properly made with 1084 will be a good knife as far as edge retention, hardness, and toughness are concerned.
Stacy
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Thanks Stacy, thats what I meant, I'm trying to get used to the terms these days, your correction was very helpful for me indeed...
Emre