1084 quenching.

C

chriswillman

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May 1, 2011
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Hey guys, I have been doing some research for a while on quenching. I was wondering what you would recommend for quenching 1084? The easiest thing for me to use would be brine. If so what temperature should it be and what would the ratio be for water/salt. My other option is canola. If I used it how what temperature would I want it at? Also, how would you suggest quenching? Dip the the whole knife in tip first? Or interrupted quench?
 
Do not quench 1084 in brine unless you like hearing little pinging noises, I used to use olive oil at 130 f and got good results, I did a demonstration last month using 130f canola oil and got good results. I use Parks 50 now and the difference between my "good" results and the blades I am doing now is amazing, I can't give you numbers because I do not have a hardness tester accessible, but the difference in how early in the sharpening process my blades will start shaving and how long they hold their edge when abused doing things like carving brass and mild steel (that is how I test my knives when I change a process variable) is pretty amazing considering that the only variable I changed was going to using an engineered quenching oil

-Page
 
McMaster Carr 11 second quench oil also works very well on 1084,and at about the same price as canola,and can be bought by the gallon.
Stan
 
Wow, I wouldn't have expected that noticeable a difference, Sunshadow. Anyone have thoughts on how much it would matter on 1080? And where the McMaster Carr 11 sec falls relative to the park and canola? I use canola oil right now, mostly because I have such a tight budget and everything I heard indicated that for 1080 it would work fine and there wasn't a noticeable difference for knife thickness material. If there's really that much difference though... I'll make it a priority to upgrade, that's for sure.
 
I would expect that the results for the McMaster will be a lot closer to the Parks 50 than the Canola. Canola is really not meant for removing heat from things, merely keeping stuff from sticking to pans. The engineered quenching oils are designed by blending things with various properties to remove heat at controlled rates from metals at certain rates at certain temperatures. I didn't believe the difference until I started sharpening the blades that I had quenched in Parks 50

-Page
 
Thanks. I'll work the McMaster into the budget. I am getting good results, but if I can get better that easily and for a reasonable amount of money, I'm not going to ignore it.
 
I'll comment on this one as well. I quenched 1080 in vet grade mineral oil for 18 months. Tempered the blades at 425, got good performance. Then I got some 10 second oil from Maxim Oil. Tempered at 425, and the edge chipped out. What does that mean? It means that my mineral oil wasn't as good as I thought it was. Like Stan, etc. said, the Mc Master oil is cheap enough and will do you better than any of the makeshift "good" quench oils.
 
Chriswillman,

I was confused and perplexed for a long time because I would read on this and other forums that we should be quenching in oil not water or brine, yet, reading the spec sheets of many non-stainless steels, they specified or recommended using brine. What's deal? I wondered.

Finely one day I read, or I think I read a reasonable explanation. If this is incorrect, please, please, please, someone set me straight. The brine quench is recommended for LARGE industrial pieces where you have to cool not a fraction of an inch of steel, but multiple inches of hot steel quickly. A piece of 1/8" or 1/4" steel that is beveled down to a very narrow edge can be cooled too aggressively in brine causing it to crack.

Again, I may be making this up, but I think I read that lower grades of steel like 1040 (rail road spikes?) can be quenched in water because of their lower amount of carbon they can't harden to the point of cracking like the higher percentages of carbon.

As I said, this may all be fiction that I only THOUGHT I read, but it sounds reasonable to me. I'm 60 years old and suffer from CRS (Can't Remember Sh--).

- Paul Meske, Wisconsin
 
You are correct. A fast oil on shallow hardening 10XX steels is the proper quenchant for thin sections. Water and brine hold no magical properties, and if the steel is fully austenitized, and then quenched to fully convert to martensite, the end hardness will be the same with either medium. There is no reason to use a water/brine quench on a knife unless you are trying to attain an active hamon....or like to hear "PING".
 
JFK96A,
What did you settle on for a temper after the switch? I'm still using 1080 and expect to continue to do so for quite a while even after I get some 1084 from Aldo and start using some stainless. Anyone else is welcome to chime in, of course. :) I'd like a new range to test in, since my current temper will no longer be appropriate.
 
I quit chipping when I bumped it up to 450. RC tested at 60.5 to 61. I just got the tester, may try 475 and see what RC I get, but I haven't had any trouble with the 60-61 blades from the 450 temper.

Here's where I go to hearsay. In my quench oil research, I heard that the vet grade mineral oil (which really has very loose specs) tests at about the 14-15 second range. When I got my 10 second oil, I sure saw a difference. Parks 50 is what, 7-8 seconds or so?
 
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