1095: Major Scale Shedding During Quench

Rick Marchand

Rick Marchand

Donkey on the Edge
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To start, I'm using a digitally controlled kiln and Houghton K.:thumbup:

Whenever I quench 1095 it literally sheds it's skin. The scale slides off in sheets. This doesn't happen(to the same extent) with 5160, 1084, 1070 or O1. I wish I had pics... one time the scale came off like a sheath, fully intact.

What gives?

Rick
 
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I've always had that happen with W1/1095 until I started coating with either a wash of satanite or ATP641 anti-scale coating.
 
Try mixing boric acid powder with rubbing alcohol. Coat the steel, and burn it off. Then H/T.
 
Bill, that's a neat variation of the boiling water and borax anti-scale compound. I used to dip blades in boiling water and borax until you get a nice coating. I've found that a satanite wash or ATP is a bit easier for me... I'm pretty damn lazy ;)
 
It happens with my knives all the time, just not quite as extreme.

I've had knives come out of the heat treat with no decarb left at all, do to the scale falling off.

It is odd though, because it never happens with 1084, O1 or 5160 for me either; maybe it's the lack of manganese.
 
It is clear that there is way more oxidation happening in a kiln than it ever did in my forge. Funny, I was expecting it to have been a more controlled atmoshere. It still love it.
 
Rick Marchand said:
It is clear that there is way more oxidation happening in a kiln than it ever did in my forge.
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You're not burning up the oxygen inside the kiln, as you can sorta do in a forge. The options are to seal the blade (cheap) or purge the kiln (pricy). At least that's how it's been explained to me.
 
How long are you soaking for Rick? There's a LOT more free oxygen in a kiln than in your forge. Personally, I use PBC from Brownells and finish blades to 400-600 grit before quench. Makes cleanup a snap.

-d
 
I think it is just something that happens with 1095 more so than with other high carbon steels. I treated a couple of 1095s last weekend and after a couple tempers I soaked them in vinegar for maybe 20 minutes and then hit them with a brass brush and I was amazed at the coating it left. It looked like a silver powder coating. I think I might have to take one or two of my next batch to a higher grit sanding and do the vinegar soak again then just put a handle on and call it done.
 
deker said:
How long are you soaking for Rick? There's a LOT more free oxygen in a kiln than in your forge. Personally, I use PBC from Brownells and finish blades to 400-600 grit before quench. Makes cleanup a snap.

-d
Click to expand...

I soaked for 10min at 1475F.
 
Im not understanding something, what is the issue with the scale popping off? To me this is a good thing, as it tells me the transformation has taken place.
 
RMLamey said:
Im not understanding something, what is the issue with the scale popping off? To me this is a good thing, as it tells me the transformation has taken place.
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Yeah, Rick. You trying to keep that scale on there, or what? ;) :D
 
Yes it does... and I'm glad to see it pop off like that. I am just pointing out that my 1095 completely sheds like a molting python. This is from a blade that went into the oven with a 400gt finish. My other steels shed scale but not to this degree. Just an obsvervation, not a complaint, really. Perhaps it is the lack of manganese.

Rick
 
I was wondering the same thing as Matt--- but I'm guessing your concern is that the other steels simply aren't scaling that much to begin with? I recently hardened (with my Paragon) a 52100 (ISH!) bearing steel hatchet a friend of mine is building and it did the very same thing. The hatchet really got bit deep by the scale and it had me wishing I'd coated it with Satanite just like Will mentioned.

I have heard lots of good things about PBC, just never tried it because I have the salt bath---but it is something I'll add to the shop (I like STUFF) ;) :D
 
Nick, I eagerly await pictures of the PBC application jig :D

Charlie and I spent about an hour talking about your jigs and the wonderful blend of engineer and artist that you bring to the craft. That WIP you and Lorien put together has both of us rethinking some of our shop paradigms.
 
Oh ok, that tells you a bit about my twisted mind, i just automatically thought you were complaining ;)
 
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