1095 tool steel?

B

Boomer_45

Joined
Jan 9, 2005
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To say I am new to knivemaking would give new people a bad name... that said I have a question.

At a recent knive show I bought a piece of 1095 tool steel. Is this decent for making my first knive? I am not forging the steel, just cutting my blank with a band saw and using a Jet Multi-tool to grind.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
1095 has been used for knives for many ,many years so it can be done ! There are steels that are more simple for the beginner such as 5160 or 1080 but regardless of which steel you use you must learn about that steel and exactly how to heat treat it .Do a search on this forum and on the computer to get the info.
 
Boomer_45 said:
To say I am new to knivemaking would give new people a bad name... that said I have a question.

At a recent knive show I bought a piece of 1095 tool steel. Is this decent for making my first knive? I am not forging the steel, just cutting my blank with a band saw and using a Jet Multi-tool to grind.

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Do you plan to heat treat it yourself???

How are you going to heat treat it? (meaning.. what equipment are you using?.. forge, oven, etc.)

IF your going to send it out to a pro for heat treat.. 1095 is a GREAT steel to start with.
IF your planning on trying to heat treat it yourself.. I would NOT use 1095 unless you know exactly the recipe for heat treating 1095 and have the correct equipment to do it. 1095 is a tricky heat treat.. you have ONLY a 25 degree window from the time it is read for quench to the point that it is starting to crystalize.. basically ruin. The temp that you need to quench (it escapes me what the exact temp is right now but many places on the web list the hardening temp for 1095).. as I was saying.. the temp you need to quench 1095 is a bit higher than 5160 and about 150 degrees higher than the state most people call non-magnetic.. that is where a magnet will not stick to the blade. Getting that precise temp is hard to do in a forge.. of any kind. IF you have a heat treat oven.. it is no problem.
5160 is in my opinion the BEST steel to use for home shop makers.. that do NOT have a oven to heat treat. (I don't know if you know what kind of oven I am talking about but they are specialized ovens...that can be brought well over 2000 degrees.. these are basically sideways kilns that are made for knives. Evenheat is one brand)
5160 can be done easily at home in a forge.. gas or charcoal.. whatever you have.. (you can build a home made charcoal forge easily with a 5 gal galvanized bucket.. some galvanized pipe.. some clay for refractory.. and an electric squirel cage blower).. (charcoal.. meaning real wood charcoal..not the stuff you barbeque with). 1095 and 5160 are both oil hardened.. meaning you need oil to quench them in. (old vegetable cooking oil will do) 5160 can be brought to non-magnetic.. left heating for about 5 min. then quenched quickly in oil and you will get close to a 58 rc. You then can triple temper it in a toaster oven at about 350 degrees for an hour.. (3 times.. letting it cool to room temp) and you will have a nice hard very tough blade.
 
No, I am not planning to HT the steel myself. I will probably send it to Texas Knife for heat treating. This is my first blade and I am starting slow, just cutting and grinding.

I have ordered the flat grinding video from the ABS website, so I hope between that and this forum I can learn to make some useable blades

I am in awe of the people on this forum. There are few arts where the artists of such skill are so free with the secrets of the art. Thanks!
 
While you picked a good one you picked a bear to begin your heat treating experience. Could be good though since the toughest to do properly can sometimes be the best to learn by. Having said that, if you can get your blade to an accomplished maker for heat treat you may be better off on this one. (I see now where you mention you do not intend to heat treat this one yourself.) If asked, I might suggest heat treating your next one yourself but might also suggest a more forgiving, yet adequate, steel to begin learning with.

RL
 
If you have access to a torch, magnet and toaster oven you can heat treat it yourself with a little practice on scrap steel.

The hard thing with using a torch to heat for the quench is getting an even heat without over heating, hence the need to practice on scrap to get the feel.

1080-1084 is a little better for the beginer because it's a little more forgiving in the heat treat. So's 5160, but it's hard to find it in anything other than 1/4" stock.

Not sure, but last time I checked TKS didn't heat treat oil harding steels, though that may have changed and there are sure to be other heat treaters out there.

Probably the best for you is to find a maker in your area that can show you how they do it, trust me, it'll realy increase your learning curve.
 
The advise you are being given is very good.A small detail for your information is that 1095 is not a tool steel - it is a spring steel.Tool steels have alloy additives to give them certain properties.D-2,A-2,W-1,O-1,L-6,etc. are tool steels.The 10XX steels and simple alloys like 5160 are spring steels.
 
5160 can be brought to non-magnetic.. left heating for about 5 min. then quenched quickly in oil and you will get close to a 58 rc. You then can triple temper it in a toaster oven at about 350 degrees for an hour.. (3 times.. letting it cool to room temp) and you will have a nice hard very tough blade.
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WEll that might be a little long did you mean 5sec
 
No he meant 5 minutes ! That 5 minutes at austenitizing temperature dissolves all the carbides and diffuses the carbon to get a nice unifrm structure.The 5 minutes is called soaking !!
 
5160 can be done easily at home in a forge.. gas or charcoal.. whatever you have.. (you can build a home made charcoal forge easily with a 5 gal galvanized bucket.. some galvanized pipe.. some clay for refractory.. and an electric squirel cage blower).. (charcoal.. meaning real wood charcoal..not the stuff you barbeque with). 1095 and 5160 are both oil hardened.. meaning you need oil to quench them in. (old vegetable cooking oil will do) 5160 can be brought to non-magnetic.. left heating for about 5 min. then quenched quickly in oil and you will get close to a 58 rc. You then can triple temper it in a toaster oven at about 350 degrees for an hour.. (3 times.. letting it cool to room temp) and you will have a nice hard very tough blade.
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Im sure you are talking about fully controlled heat teat oven where temp can and will be held to the degree and that by not increasing it past that tempture point that you will hold for affect you speak of ---- But if you go back and read he changed from full control to a home made forge or charcoal
with a home made forge that would create ongoing temp in the steel and great grain growth in a 5 min..time frame.
it would grow the grain the size of your head that method has no temp control but to increase and even in the cross section we work in 5 min is over kill even in a controlled inviroment that’s what i was referring to – the reason for the magnet now I could be wrong you tell me you’re the metal expert and im not saying that to be smart I would love to hear your take on what was said
 
1095
Austenitizing temp: 1475F (ASM Heat Treater’s Guide)

1084
Austenitizing temp: 1500F (ASM Heat Treater’s Guide)

5160
Austenitizing temp: 1525F (ASM Heat Treater’s Guide)

I have austenitized both 1084 and 1095 at 1500F with very good results. The guide also lists water as the quench medium for 1084 and 1095 in thickness greater than .25”, 1095 lacks the higher manganese content of 1084 so it is even slightly more shallow hardening and will have around .5 seconds to get from austenitizing to below range of pearlite formation. This has been the only tricky part I have found in 1095 over the years that I have used it, but then I am rather fond of hypereutectoid steels for knives, I like getting a boost from residual carbides. Get the quickest cooling, quality quench oil you can find and you should do fine. However, if your oil is a little less than optimum speed 1095 will display beautiful hamons naturally with no clay necessary.

I have found 1095 to be a very friendly steel over the years- just don’t overheat it, it really doesn’t like it when you overheat it.
 
Will52100 said:
Not sure, but last time I checked TKS didn't heat treat oil harding steels, though that may have changed and there are sure to be other heat treaters out there.

Probably the best for you is to find a maker in your area that can show you how they do it, trust me, it'll realy increase your learning curve.
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Thank all for the info. Obviously, I don't know a lot about steel.. I assumed that since Kovall called this "1095 tool steel" that it was.. ;-) Thanks for the update on that.

Hey, if there is a maker in the East Tenn area, please speak up! I would love to spend some time learning. If nothing, I am eager to learn
 
Ron Claiborne said:
WEll that might be a little long did you mean 5sec
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No.. it's 5 min.. soaking it.. to a good Austenite..
I am talking about the time from non-magnetic to quench.
5160 goes non-magnetic at a considerable less temp than the temp needed for the quench. 5160 is much more forgiving in the temps you go above non-magnetic than just about any other steel.. except maybe 0-1.

If your good.. you can watch it do this.. by watching the shadows in the steel.. move around.. until they are all gone.

You can do this with 5160.. NOT 1095.. 1095 starts to ruin at about 25 degrees above the quench temp.
 
I guess I start everything the hard way. My first HC steel was 1095. HT'd properly it makes a great blade. I still use it quite a bit. A toch or forge and your ready to go. If I can help out at all just drop me a line (e-mail, PM, call, whatever nowadays).
;)
 
I'm with J on that one. Used 1095 for the first 5 years heating it up with a weed burning torch inside a little stacked firebrick box and quenching in heated olive oil. Might not have been getting the ultimate in performance out of it, but but got quite a few good working blades that are still working in my kitchen and shop.
You can get the torch from harbor freight for about 20.00. Gets things non-magnetic pretty quick. Just need to get it in the oil as quick as possible.
Ed
 
Boomer, all I can say is stay away from that Ron Claiborne guy, he'll screw with your head in the worst ways and then to top it all off you won't be able to sleep for weeks. Take my word for it, he'll mess you up. ;)
Ron's been making knives for probably over 30 years now and he knows his stuff, his damascus knowledge is unbelievable, so like I said above, if you want a bunch of sleepless nights go to Ron's, if not STAY AWAY.

Bill
 
Bill I have this new pattern that I think you might be able to emblish upon if you would only give it some consideration and follow through with our standard methods that you were sworn to secrete with you know you --fold- ,slice --,dice,-- flip ,---chip-- cut ---cube-- cord-- slip-- slab-- stab–stretch–shrink– electrocute ---round house turns insert insert bird parts –bars- beer cans-- drops of tears from a wild hog in full run ----well those parts not really wort it I find it hard to run beside the hog any more getting old I think --- just trying to see if you were paying attention ,
But I know that you have that drive to get it wright and that if anybody can pull it off you can its really a simple pattern and it should not take long to build but Bill what ever you don’t divert from this method if you do try thinking other way or a new methods ,---- hell no telling what you may end up with . You give it some thought im going to bed Grin
and I sleep like a baby – I count patterns to go to sleep and i keep a note book next to my bed so when i finialy lose it and they have taken me to be Analyzed the doc might have a good idea as to my problem

Now if I fold or was that cut add shift end foe end what would happen :D :D :yawn: :yawn:
 
Ron Claiborne said:
i live in east tn. what town do you live in
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I am in the Knoxville area, if you are in E. TN I can almost asure you I would be willing to travel.... if you don't mind me looking over your shoulder.
 
Boomer your in deep chit now, didn't you read his last post. The man is insane when it comes to knives and damascus making. Before you go to his house, which is in Knoxville by the way, stop and get measured for a straight jacket, because he will drive you crazy with different patterns and techniques. I pity your girlfriend or wife, mother and grandmother, for they too will suffer too. :D

I knew I shouldn't have said anything, now I have to go hunt a wild hog. darn it. ;)

Have fun,

Bill
 
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