1095 vs High Carbon?

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thisisallen

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Recently bought the Winchester 2935 in MOP - nice pocket jewelry. The only description of the steel I’ve seen is “high carbon.” As far as patina/staining goes, it is different than for 1095. It reacts as more stainless. i don’t know if all Winchester knives use the same steel but I’ve seen pics of older Winchester knives with lots of patina. Perhaps other owners of the 2935 may like to comment on their experience with the high carbon steel of this model.

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thisisallen said:
Recently bought the Winchester 2935 in MOP - nice pocket jewelry. The only description of the steel I’ve seen is “high carbon.” As far as patina/staining goes, it is different than for 1095. It reacts as more stainless. i don’t know if all Winchester knives use the same steel but I’ve seen pics of older Winchester knives with lots of patina. Perhaps other owners of the 2935 may like to comment on their experience with the high carbon steel of this model.

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I have a 2935 with bone covers. IIRC the blade steel is 1095.
 
I am not familiar with that knife, but figured I’d share my thoughts.

Perhaps it could be stainless steel? High carbon stainless is sometimes used to refer to stainless with higher carbon content which increases hardenability. It won’t be as corrosion resistant as it’s lower carbon cousins but will harden more and be better for a blade steel.

But, I’d listen to kamagong kamagong if I were you.
 
I thought 1095 is a "high carbon" carbon steel.
The 440 series and 425HC stain less steels are also "high carbon" with at least 17% chromium added to make them stain less. (it takes some effort, but "stainless" steel can rust and stain.)
Did Winchester ever use D2? D2 is not really a "stainless" steel ... "semi-stainless"(?) maybe? Supposedly it will patina, but from my experiance (Marbles MR431 D2Sowbelly stockman) stabbing a lemon and leaving it in the lemon for 15 minutes (give or take) and wrapping a vinegar soaked paper towl on the blade for 15 minutes (give or take) didn't do much ... didn't even knock the shine off, to be honest ... ☹️
5160 carbon steel is also reluctant to patina. At least my Buck 110 with that blade steel is.

At one time, "High Carbon" pretty much meant one of the 10xx carbon steels. Now days it includes stainless steels ... at least the simple ones that contain iron.
 
afishhunter said:
I thought 1095 is a "high carbon" carbon steel.
The 440 series and 425HC stain less steels are also "high carbon" with at least 17% chromium added to make them stain less. (it takes some effort, but "stainless" steel can rust and stain.)
Did Winchester ever use D2? D2 is not really a "stainless" steel ... "semi-stainless"(?) maybe? Supposedly it will patina, but from my experiance (Marbles MR431 D2Sowbelly stockman) stabbing a lemon and leaving it in the lemon for 15 minutes (give or take) and wrapping a vinegar soaked paper towl on the blade for 15 minutes (give or take) didn't do much ... didn't even knock the shine off, to be honest ... ☹️
5160 carbon steel is also reluctant to patina. At least my Buck 110 with that blade steel is.

At one time, "High Carbon" pretty much meant one of the 10xx carbon steels. Now days it includes stainless steels ... at least the simple ones that contain iron
Click to expand...
At one time, "High Carbon" pretty much meant one of the 10xx carbon steels. Now days it includes stainless steels ... at least the simple ones that contain iron.
Click to expand...
that’s the confusing part because the 2935 seems to be a knife from that time when high carbon meant 10xx - that’s one of the reasons why I purchased it
 
thisisallen said:
that’s the confusing part because the 2935 seems to be a knife from that time when high carbon meant 10xx - that’s one of the reasons why I purchased it
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Have you tried cleaning the blades with a wax remover? (available at automotive paint companies, and auto parts stores that sell automotive paints and supplies. I haven't bought (or needed) any since I got out of that line of work round about 1980/1981, so I have no idea how spendy it is now. If I remember right, a half gallon wasn't too bad back then ... under $10 or $15 I think.)
As Mr D dundak said above, maybe a previous owner waxed it.

OH! The wax remover also gets rid of any oils and oil residue on the steel. 😇
 
it doesn’t seem like there’s wax on the blades. As an experiment, I may try a solvent to see if it makes any difference. Either way I’m enjoying the little knife 😀
 
From what I’ve picked up, if it’s a Queen made Winchester their stainless was 440C followed by 420HC. Non-stainless was 1095. Queen used D2, but I don’t believe it was used for Winchesters, and when they did there was a P on the tang for Peters Heat treat.
 
By steel industry terminology, a 'high carbon' steel is generally defined as any steel with approximately 0.4% - 0.45% or higher carbon content. That's basically just a little more than the minimum needed to make the steel hardenable by heat treat. Whether it's stainless or not doesn't figure into the definition for a 'high carbon' steel. So, a stainless steel like 420HC with 0.45% carbon would be 'high carbon', as would a non-stainless steel like 1095 (0.9% - 1.0% carbon), or any other steel made to take and hold a fine, sharp and durable edge afforded by heat treated hardening.

So, a knife labeled as 'high carbon' steel is about as vague a description as can be, in terms of really saying much about the makeup of the steel itself, other than it can be assumed it's capable of being hardened by heat treat, for edge-holding's sake.

A lot of relatively inexpensive stainless knives used to be described by that 'high carbon' characterization in their descriptions of the steels used, without being any more specific about the makeup. Saw a lot of that back in the 1990s and earlier, in particular.
 
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