110 question and request.

Badhammer

Badhammer

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Jun 8, 2009
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With the various limited edition and special runs for various retailers it seems like we've seen a lot of nice variations of the 110 Hunter with uncommon steels, scale and frame materials and drop points versus the standard clip point. This got me to thinking. Has Buck or anyone else offered the 110 in ATS-34?

I don't recall one unless it was something available thru the old custom shop though I do have other Buck models in ATS-34. I'd sure like to see someone offer one. Was thinking along the line of a FFG clip point, aluminum frame, and bamboo scales as an homage to it's Japanese origins.

Any other fans of this steel?
 
I think I read a long time ago that ATS-34 and 154CM are virtually the same steel. I may be wrong though.
 
Yes, the elements are very close. ATS-34 is a Hitachi steel made in Japan. 154cm is made here by Crucible. Using the vacuum remelt process.
This process highly refines the elements and the result is a much purer steel. Thus, the end result comes out a better knife. DM
 
Correct, 154CM is US made & ATS34 is Japan.
From what I've read they are the same.
 
David Martin said:
Yes, the elements are very close. ATS-34 is a Hitachi steel made in Japan. 154cm is made here by Crucible. Using the vacuum remelt process.
This process highly refines the elements and the result is a much purer steel. Thus, the end result comes out a better knife. DM
Click to expand...
Thanks for the clarification David!
 
Yep, pretty much the same steel. That being said I just have this thing for ATS-34. Can't explain it as I have blades in both and neither is a slouch when it comes to performance, all else being equal. This addiction has many facets.
 
The Custom Shop offered the 110 in ATS-34 10 to 15 years ago and sold a lot of them.

They phased it out in favor of BG-42 because.........well, BG-42 is just better.

Just use the search on the big bay auction site and you'll eventually find one.......(but I'd go for a BG-42 if I were looking).

:)
 
Thanks. I've got one of the new DP models in BG-42. Was thinking the old CS might have offered it.
 
View attachment 788640 The story on the street was that Bob Loveless was looking for a better steel than 440C for his custom knives. He got ahold of some 154 CM and was happy with the results. 154 CM is 15%C and 4%Mo hence the 15 4 designation. 440C has .75% Mo. The metal was designed for turbine blades in jet engines. Crucible was not too interested in the knife blade market, did not offer a lot of sizes, and insisted on large orders.
At the same time US steel manufacturers were complaining about the competition from Japanese mills. The government put quotas on Japanese imports but the quotas applied to tons not value. So the Japanese moved into specialty exports to the US so that the value was increased even though the tonnage remained the same. This all occurred just as US knifemakers were looking for more sizes and smaller lots of 15 4 type steel. The Japanese provided a clone (ATS-34), and made significant inroads into the market before Crucible woke up and smelled the coffee.
I have not heard that 154 CM is a double melt like BG-42. Before the introduction CPM steels, BG-42 was about the only knife steel around that contained Vanadium (at the 1.2% level). Vanadium Carbides Rockwell at 82C and can impart significant wear resistance to a blade.
As Vanadium content climbs, so does wear resistance. S30=4%, S60=5.5%, S90=9%, S110=9%+3.5%Nb, S125=12%, etc.
Here is a picture of a Bucklite to which I attached a Custom Shop ATS-34 blade. I have not seen any 154 CM blades in the model 110 size.
 
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Tiguy, I have been told a similar story by custom knife makers. Crucible did wake up and capture this market. It is interesting that Only
Spyderco puts vanadium carbides at that hardness. There is no doubt they increase wear resistance with blades but have to be dealt with in
sharpening. Thanks for the photo, I knew some were around. DM
 
Spyderco cannot change the hardness of Vanadium Carbide only the hardness of the steel matrix by controlling the ratio of face centered to body centered cubic lattices. The Vanadium Carbides are spread through the alloy like stones in cement. They probably have little influence on the penetration of the diamond pyramid of the Rockwell tester into the sample.
Or did you mean Spyderco cranks out more high Vanadium models?
Diamond sharpeners scoff at the abrasion resistance of Vanadium Carbides.
 
How come only Spyderco states that VC are at 82 rockwell. It would require some sophisticated equipment to target a vanadium carbide at 3u and determine it hardness consistently at 82.?
 
Spyderco is merely stating that the hardness of VC is 82 HRC. They did not adjust the hardness to that point.
I do not think that the hardness of Vanadium Carbide is measured in situ in an alloy. Rather the test would be performed on a piece of pure Vanadium Carbide. Once the hardness of VC is determined, it does not change as it is spread around to various applications. I have seen slight variations in the reported hardness of Tungsten Carbide (72 HRC). Not so with VC.
The guys who have made custom high Vanadium Carbide content and/or Stellite blades for me have bitched about the attrition of belts and rightly so. One S-90-V blade used six 6 foot belts in the polishing operation. Somebody needs to make diamond belts so we can have our cake and eat it too.
 
Boron Carbide belts will cut it. I cannot agree that V carbides are found to be that hard sooo consistently. DM
 
View attachment 791024 CBN (Cubic Boron Nitride) is harder than Vanadium Carbide. I think MMM Cubitron belts are CBN coated, so they should not have a problem with high VC alloys. The HRC of VC is 82. It is added to blades that wind up at about 60-62 HRC. My Fantoni HB-01’s and HB-03’s are in that range and contain 12.5% VC at 82 HRC.
 
If I remember correctly, BG42 and ATS34 were both available when Pete's custom knife shop came online. ATS34 lasted briefly into the s30v era. I ordered a few in BG42 but only one in ATS34... Around 2006 sometime.
 
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