115W8 hamon?

jdm61

jdm61

itinerant metal pounder
Joined
Aug 12, 2005
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So, I am in the process of pounding the last little bit of my 115W8 secret stash into 4 small to medium sized kitchen knives and was wondering if it is possible to get a REAL hamon with that steel, as opposed to just a muddy quench line?
 
I see. My ears just perked when you said hamon and mentioned a steel ive never heard of.
 
It is an obsolete German metal cutting bandsaw steel. Kind of like Hitachi Blue #2 but with about 50% more tungsten. I call it Blue #1.5 because it has the carbon content of #2 but the tungsten content of #1.
 
My blue #2 hamon attempts were less than impressive. Not a temper line but muddy is exactly how I would describe it.
 
To determine the likelihood of a hamon, look at the alloying, not the carbon. If it has more than .3% Mn, or more than 1% of other grain forming and deeper hardening alloying, it will be less likely to produce a good hamon.

115W8 has .20-.40 Mn, so that is OK, but it has well over 1% W, which may lessen the activity of the hamon. I would give it a try and see what happens. It should show, but maybe not have crazy activity.
 
Hoss, I have one piece left that is 6 x 1.5 x .20 and I was thinking the same thing a while back. What would you use for cladding?
DevinT said:
Make San-mai and you’ll save material and still have a cool look.

Hoss
Click to expand...
 
WELL over .1% W as in around .2%! :D
Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith said:
To determine the likelihood of a hamon, look at the alloying, not the carbon. If it has more than .3% Mn, or more than 1% of other grain forming and deeper hardening alloying, it will be less likely to produce a good hamon.

115W8 has .20-.40 Mn, so that is OK, but it has well over 1% W, which may lessen the activity of the hamon. I would give it a try and see what happens. It should show, but maybe not have crazy activity.
Click to expand...
 
jdm61 said:
Hoss, I have one piece left that is 6 x 1.5 x .20 and I was thinking the same thing a while back. What would you use for cladding?
Click to expand...


Lately I’ve been diggin’ 4340, cladding gets to ~52 hrc and is less reactive than mild steel. I’d like to try 4330 but can’t find any in small amounts for a reasonable price. I’ve had to forge my cladding down from round though.

Hoss
 
I always thought that you could with 115w8, I've never tried tho. Here are a few photos from makers around the world. Looks like really good activity on the 2nd photo, but more of the simple differential hardening line on the others.

qWSXRkO.jpg


q4AEJua.jpg


s0arvxF.jpg


xs9n0q3.jpg
 
The steel has about 2.0% W and .25% Cr. That is well over 1.0%.
Like I said, give it a try and see what you get.
 
I was eyeballing that 4340. That is the 4140 "blend" that has the 1.5-2% nickel, right? I know you can get the 4140 all day in flat plate, but does the 4340 typically come in round bar? I have a little 16 ton press, so getting steel down to 1/2 flat is not a big deal. Thinner gets a tad time consuming and scale producing. :D
DevinT said:
Lately I’ve been diggin’ 4340, cladding gets to ~52 hrc and is less reactive than mild steel. I’d like to try 4330 but can’t find any in small amounts for a reasonable price. I’ve had to forge my cladding down from round though.

Hoss
Click to expand...
 
I’ve not used 115w8, but I’ve done a few in hitachi blue, and got good activity on the non banded steel I had. The banded steel still got a hamon, but the activity blurred into the banding.

image by Wjkrywko, on Flickr

The hamon is closer to the edge towards the heel than I like, but there is a fully hardened edge all the way back. This one was clayless iirc. Not 100% sure though. I did a few clayless hamon at the time I made that knife, so I think it was clayless.this one had moderate banding, but the next one I did was so banded, I could barely tell where the hamon was.

This one was differentialky hardened, and you can see two areas of transition that are blurred by the heavy banding.

IMG_0887 by Wjkrywko, on Flickr

I’ve got a small amount of this heavily banded steel left. I’m saving it for the right project.
 
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