135cr3

John mc c

John mc c

Joined
Aug 23, 2018
Messages
3,079
Hey guys, anyone know anything about this steel
I can't seem to find anything here about it,i figure there might be a US equivalent that I don't know about
C 1.35
Cr .74
Mang .35
Moly .2
Sil .2
V .08
Ni .07
I know it's heat treatment I just like to read about steels I'll be working with.i have some ordered for kitchen knives
Thanks in advance
 
John mc c said:
Hey guys, anyone know anything about this steel
I can't seem to find anything here about it,i figure there might be a US equivalent that I don't know about
C 1.35
Cr .74
Mang .35
Moly .2
Sil .2
V .08
Ni .07
I know it's heat treatment I just like to read about steels I'll be working with.i have some ordered for kitchen knives
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
I think that it is W2 steel ................and good one ,plenty of carbon there ......:)
135CR3/ 1.2008 / W2

The 135Cr3 is a high-carbon low-alloy steel commonly used for the manufacture of rasps, files, more widely, all cutting tools requiring strength, reliability and hardness. Its very high carbon content (1.3%) allows it to reach high hardnesses, which are essential for this type of highly requested tools.

135Cr3 carbon steel is perfect for the production of blades requiring a high hardness without too much toughness as for example razors cut cabbage. The cutlers also appreciate it because it allows to obtain very marked lines of tempers.

With regard to heat treatment, quenching with water or accelerated oil is recommended.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
John mc c said:
Hey guys, anyone know anything about this steel
I can't seem to find anything here about it,i figure there might be a US equivalent that I don't know about
C 1.35
Cr .74
Mang .35
Moly .2
Sil .2
V .08
Ni .07
I know it's heat treatment I just like to read about steels I'll be working with.i have some ordered for kitchen knives
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Should make a great kitchen knife.
 
I saw it listed as w2 but with so much more carbon I thought it must be a different steel
Yes it should make a great thin behind the edge blade at a high hardness
Thanks guys
 
John mc c said:
I saw it listed as w2 but with so much more carbon I thought it must be a different steel
Yes it should make a great thin behind the edge blade at a high hardness
Thanks guys
Click to expand...

W2 can be up to 1.5%c, iirc. It usually has much less chromium though.
 
Willie71 said:
W2 can be up to 1.5%c, iirc. It usually has much less chromium though.
Click to expand...
So I have read but I've only ever seen it with about 1%.i have little experience with w2 tho
Would that much chromium add much to wear resistance you think Warren?
 
It is widely used by French knife makers. It is good stuff. You may not get as much hamon activity as Aldo's W2 though, but very few steels do...
 
Not enough chromium to make a significant difference. The vast majority of carbides will be cementite (iron carbides).
 
The chromium is for hardenability not chromium carbides.
 
135Cr3 is basically a deeper hardening White # 1 (Shirogami). A few of us here have been playing around with 26c3 from Alpha Knife Supply. I like to call it 126Cr3. It’s a baby brother, you might could say, to 135Cr3. Seems to get very hard out of quench and stays quite hard after tempering. Hamon formation is pretty good. 135Cr3 with 0.7% chromium would probably have even less hamon potential. (I hate it when spell check keeps changing “hamon” to “Harmon”). These kind of steels are best in the kitchen where they can be used with very thin and very hard edges. The overall wear resistance is low, comparable to 52100 and O1, as the only carbide present is cementite. The chromium is present mainly for hardenability and a little toughness, not enough for primary chromium carbide formation. The ZKnives website mentions that it is/was used as a steel for files, which makes sense as it gets crazy hard and has a very tight grain structure.
 
John mc c said:
Hey guys, anyone know anything about this steel
I can't seem to find anything here about it,i figure there might be a US equivalent that I don't know about
C 1.35
Cr .74
Mang .35
Moly .2
Sil .2
V .08
Ni .07
I know it's heat treatment I just like to read about steels I'll be working with.i have some ordered for kitchen knives
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...

Some bladesmiths do very nice blades out of it, especially in France where it is abundant and pretty cheap. One that does wonders with this steel is Yanick Puig, who specializes in japanese cutlery (he does it right). So I was wondering, did you get good results with this steel? I plan on ordering some as a thicker alternative to 26c3 for san mai core steel. Also would you say that ht is similar to most simple hypereutectiod steels (as in a 10min hold around 800°C then in water/brine/fast oil)? I am definitely curious about your experience, as bladesmithing feedback about this steel is more scarce as 26c3, w2 or hitachi steel on the web. Even french smith's forums aren't saying much about it except that it's great, which is a good start I guess!
 
Getting excellent results here with 26C3 (extremely similar to what you have). The heat treatment is pretty straightforward. 26C3 here is supplied in the fine spheroidized state, and just needs a 10 minute hold at 1475°F / 800°C, fast oil (or water/brine if you feel adventurous) quench. 67HRC post quench. 400°F / 200°C tempers still ~63-64HRC. Works really well for fine edge hard kitchen cutters. No need for cryo or sub zero post quench, but doesn't hurt, either. If super awesome hamon is what you're after, it's not the best steel for that. Your alloy has 0.74% chromium, which will pretty much kill chances for those popping hamons. Differential hardening line, yes. "Proper" hamon, not really. (Same with 26C3, you can get hamon, but the 0.3% chromium messes up the hamon potential). I don't put hamon on 26C3 blades. If I am going to go through the trouble of polishing and etching a hamon, I want W2, 1095, 1075, or Shirogami.
 
Love the 26C3. Gets very hard with less processing than the 52100.

There are no Chromium Carbides in 52100 like we see in A2. Not enough Cr to form them.

It's (Cr,Fe)3C or "M"3C
Chromium rich Iron Carbides.
They may be form Stronger bonds with the carbon over pure Fe but not anywhere near M7C3 chromium Carbides in hardness.

The 26C3 had a high carbide volume so I'd put my money on that in wear resistance but they are both poor at wear resistance so perhaps it's moot.

Jmatpro showed 26C3 almost twice the Iron Carbides over 52100.

However accurate that may be it looks like we will get more Fe3C and perhaps the benifit of Cr rich M3C may not overcome the pure volume.




samuraistuart said:
Getting excellent results here with 26C3 (extremely similar to what you have). The heat treatment is pretty straightforward. 26C3 here is supplied in the fine spheroidized state, and just needs a 10 minute hold at 1475°F / 800°C, fast oil (or water/brine if you feel adventurous) quench. 67HRC post quench. 400°F / 200°C tempers still ~63-64HRC. Works really well for fine edge hard kitchen cutters. No need for cryo or sub zero post quench, but doesn't hurt, either. If super awesome hamon is what you're after, it's not the best steel for that. Your alloy has 0.74% chromium, which will pretty much kill chances for those popping hamons. Differential hardening line, yes. "Proper" hamon, not really. (Same with 26C3, you can get hamon, but the 0.3% chromium messes up the hamon potential). I don't put hamon on 26C3 blades. If I am going to go through the trouble of polishing and etching a hamon, I want W2, 1095, 1075, or Shirogami.
Click to expand...
 
Josh Rider said:
Lower your austemp Stuart, you’ll see more activity. Try 1450 - 1460
Click to expand...

you might be very correct. I have a few kitchen knives to polish out in 26c3, and will compare to what I got with W2. I used 1460f to austenitize. I plan to do coupons from 1420f up to see optimum.
 
I’m just talking about hamon activity, which probably won’t be the same as target hardness. It’s hard to really know unless you’re testing a flat portion of the tang and hoping that’s the same hardness as the edge.
 
Update 4 months later : I've had exciting results with both 26c3 and 135cr3 in the 6 san mai kitchen knives I've done so far. I do 1450 degrees for 10min in parks 50. Both of these steels with that HT laugh at my 65hrc test file even after a 300f temper. In a gyuto with 13dps and 0.010inches behind the edge they are completely indistinguishable, maybe the 135cr3 requires like 5 or 6 more passes on my Jnat finisher to get the hair-popping sharpness I like, but that probably means it might keep it also that tiny little bit longer. I'd say it is maybe more about ht variances than the actual steel differences, as I did the 26c3 blades in my forge with a muffle pipe and a thermocouple, while the 135cr3 ones were done in a kiln. In any case performance is a non-factor in deciding which steel is my favourite. I just like the fact that I have access to thicker stock for forging with the 135cr3 so it's a win for me. But now that I've tried these steels I was curious about going with something that keeps a terrific edge a bit longer. I've played with clad Hitachi blue#2 from Dictum and I liked it a lot, but the price and size limitations were not optimal. So far I have thought about Cruforge V and 1.2519. I reckon I could use samuraistuart samuraistuart input as it seems he's done a lot with each of these steels through the years. I must mention that I ask just by pure curiosity as this is a hobby for me, and I would be perfectly happy with any of the steels mentionned for my personal use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top