13C26/AEB-L, their variants, the manufacturing production knives and similar steels that are disregarded

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Jan 25, 2022
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In the selection of stainless, I hear that a while ago 13C26/AEB-L (I will only write AEB-L from now) were not desired for general purpose knives because it lacks of edge retention, many saw it as 420 alternative. This was back in the time where 440C and similar in the class were the shiny ones.

Nowadays, many people are looking for high toughness over edge retention, and AEB-L stands out in this property for stainless steel. Its toughness is comparable to many high toughness tool steels. Then it gets newer version like 14C28N and Nitro-V, which are very common in the budget section in to day market as Chinese manufacturers are throwing them out of the production line without a sign of slowing down.

Despite their well known toughness, these steel mostly appear in small fixed blade and pocket knives, which generally doesn't need as much toughness. Currently, there is very few large fixed blade (more than 6 inches) or chopper using these steels, this section of the market is dominated by plain carbon or tool steels like 5160 and 52100. The demand for high toughness is clearly there as I see more and more new people come to knife hobby seem to love indestructible blades. I guess the YouTube destruction tests do the job. Yet, the fixed blades in stainless, not counting powdered steels, are commonly seen in 420HC, 440 series (sometimes under factory designation like N695), 154CM, VG series, AUS-8 and sometimes even D2. Why is that?

On the similar steels that are disregarded, AUS-6 comes to mind. The AUS series has about 13% chromium then the usual, which is the only thing making them similar to 420 series, and the numbers behind denote the average carbon content, for AUS-6, it is ~0.6, very similar to AEB-L. Then like usual, AUS series has the little MoV. People usually says that it is just 420 in a different name or 420 class whatever, especially on Spyderco Forums where the statement is echoed with the 1990s Spyderco knives. As some people are showing their Hattori knives, one of the few place still using this steel, for medium/big knives nonetheless, should we revisit this steel like we do with AEB-L? Testing out it modulus and other aspects?
 
Looking at Knife Center's offerings, the vast majority of 14C28N knives are under $200, but the majority of AEB-L knives are over--often way over--$200.

My wife's favorite knife is a custom AEB-L that she uses a lot, including for gardening. The edge retention is quite satisfactory.
 
I have plenty of AEB-L fixed blades from 4-7” blade lengths, most are custom though, and I love them, also great for food prep.

For longer blades, the enemy to AEB-L in my use are near stainless steels, like 3V, A8mod / INFI or even A2. No kitchen use really, and very little maintenance required. Others might operate similarly ?
 
I'm kind of tired of this. I respect Larrin Larrin , he has the knowledge and down to test out stuff and make comprehensible articles for both professional, users and hobbyists. He is still one person, and that table is still one source. Every thread about steel, it is always the same table and we both read for hundred of time already. I'm just saying that I don't see it as a Bible and Larrin as Jesus who shown you the light of the knife steel hobby like many of you are doing. Also, the consistency is not always the best, like he said that he tested 420HC from Buck themselves, then other steel samples from random sources, it can all affect the result. If people see the N695 as better than 440C, despite using the same specs, then can they be?

Looking at Knife Center's offerings, the vast majority of 14C28N knives are under $200, but the majority of AEB-L knives are over--often way over--$200.

My wife's favorite knife is a custom AEB-L that she uses a lot, including for gardening. The edge retention is quite satisfactory.
Well, per my OG post, I'm looking for medium large fixed. If you use the excellent filter they have, pick blade length between 5 to 10 inches there is no 14C28N option at all, you only get some once you reduce the blade length criteria to under 5 inches. It is the same on every other website, hence I made this post. If we go with custom option, there there is nothing such as "doesn't exist".
 
Some of my AEB-L examples:

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i-GwxsjWp-X3.jpg


i-SStnmRF-X3.jpg


I generally agree with … would be nice to find more larger AEB-L production knives. Then again, these days I buy my fixed blades here, not at KnifeCenter, so it doesn’t matter much to me in practice. Custom makers are actually not that expensive, and you know exactly what you are getting.
 
Despite their well known toughness, these steel mostly appear in small fixed blade and pocket knives, which generally doesn't need as much toughness.

Why is that?

I’m guessing that at least in part it’s because they really aren’t well known/respected by the vast majority of knife people, and that in part is due to the fact that the high levels of interest in high toughness knives is fairly recent.

I think that until fairly recently, high edge retention was by far the most important feature of a blade, so tougher steels got scorned.

I recon that within another decade or so these steels will be more common. 🤞🤞
 
I'm kind of tired of this. I respect Larrin Larrin , he has the knowledge and down to test out stuff and make comprehensible articles for both professional, users and hobbyists. He is still one person, and that table is still one source. Every thread about steel, it is always the same table and we both read for hundred of time already. I'm just saying that I don't see it as a Bible and Larrin as Jesus who shown you the light of the knife steel hobby like many of you are doing. Also, the consistency is not always the best, like he said that he tested 420HC from Buck themselves, then other steel samples from random sources, it can all affect the result. If people see the N695 as better than 440C, despite using the same specs, then can they be?


Well, per my OG post, I'm looking for medium large fixed. If you use the excellent filter they have, pick blade length between 5 to 10 inches there is no 14C28N option at all, you only get some once you reduce the blade length criteria to under 5 inches. It is the same on every other website, hence I made this post. If we go with custom option, there there is nothing such as "doesn't exist".
Maybe when we find someone else who can test steel we will have more charts.
 
I'm just saying that I don't see it as a Bible and Larrin as Jesus who shown you the light of the knife steel hobby like many of you are doing.

What? You don't see it as a Bible and Larrin as Jesus?

I'll have you know that I was lost in the desert with Larrin's dad about, oh, something, something B.C., (where do you think the term Damascus comes from?), and a few years later he pops back up with a family.

Now, you may consider that a coincidence, but like Pascal's wager, I'm going to take my chances and trust his data. I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen if I'm wrong? I go to that place where the heat treat goes on forever?

Meh...I've lived through worse.
 
We can update charts as we get more or better data. It’s not as if they are set in stone. But I will say where the improvements usually come are rarely in the areas where people are arguing with me. There are all kinds of theories floated about how I didn’t match the heat treatment in industry whether for good or bad (leading to inflated or depressed values), etc, etc. Most of those arguments aren’t going to lead to what they think it will.
 
Maybe when we find someone else who can test steel we will have more charts.
Back in the early 2000's, Ankerson, Gunmike1, Cliff Stamp, and I would rotate knives and test/post results. All I got was crap and challenges to my methods. So I still test, but keep the results to myself. If someone doesn't like the results of your tests, then they can always do it themselves.
 
Back in the early 2000's, Ankerson, Gunmike1, Cliff Stamp, and I would rotate knives and test/post results. All I got was crap and challenges to my methods. So I still test, but keep the results to myself. If someone doesn't like the results of your tests, then they can always do it themselves.
Do you still have that information?
 
No, been through several computers since then. It might be here in the archives, but I'm not sure about that works here.
 
I'm kind of tired of this. I respect Larrin Larrin , he has the knowledge and down to test out stuff and make comprehensible articles for both professional, users and hobbyists. He is still one person, and that table is still one source. Every thread about steel, it is always the same table and we both read for hundred of time already. I'm just saying that I don't see it as a Bible and Larrin as Jesus who shown you the light of the knife steel hobby like many of you are doing. Also, the consistency is not always the best, like he said that he tested 420HC from Buck themselves, then other steel samples from random sources, it can all affect the result. If people see the N695 as better than 440C, despite using the same specs, then can they be
He may have bought them from different sources, I don't know. He didn't buy knives and test them though. He went through the trouble of making test knives and coupons for the tests and he even has the heat treat listed for those that want to repeat the tests. He even has his own CATRA machine to do wear resistance testing just like real labs do in the industry.

I don't know anybody worshiping Larrin but trying to keep things in perspective we have an honest metallurgist who seems to not be weighted down with a large ego . We have seen lots of "experts" come and go over the years . The ones who are honest, competent and sincere get respect , then there are the others. :) What is the saying about judging a tree by the fruit it gives ?

Joe
 
I don't know anybody worshiping Larrin

Yes you do...Me...

Only have 900 square feet but the largest room in my house (made my daughter sleep in the closet under the stairs) is a Shrine to Knife Steel Nerds. I have the charts on all the walls. Not glued or taped I mean painted with acrylics for the most accuracy. The room is kept immaculate and we always keep Rosemary incense burning to keep the room clean and free of negative energy.
 
My two cents... I wouldnt want to give up the toughness of something like AEB-L for a lackluster range of edge retention like AUS6/8 . AUS6 is good in terms of the hard use variety that won't break the bank though but so is AEB-L 🤷‍♂️
 
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