13c26, how to get more toothy edge?

T

TheGoldenWalrus

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Jul 16, 2011
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so i recently got the Buck Vantage avid, and upon receiving it was fairly sharp although not to my likeing so i quickly sharpened it, but i noticed that even off the "stone" (only have a Smith's diamond dual hone) the edge wasn't toothy in the least, where as this smooth edge works i do prefer a bit of a toothy edge. so was just wondering if this is normal for the steel and i just need to get use to it, or if there is a way to get it a bit more toothy.

Thanks,
Scott
 
From what I understand those can run as high as 60RC - in my limited experience the higher the RC the less a fine grained steel will exhibit a good toothy edge. The good news is that the Sandvik steels usually perform 'toothy' even when sharpened to a fairly high grit value. Maybe a different abrasive will do a better job for the type of edge you're looking for (SiC, India stone) than the polycrystaline diamond used by Smith. Maybe someone that's more familiar with this steel can chime in, I only have examples of Sandvik in 12c27, and 14c28n.
 
I haven't tried to get a toothy edge(600 grit then strop), but my mora in 12c27 always has a very polished edge for some reason.
 
Sanvik steels are a very fine grain steel hence, not such a toothy edge will they exibit. Yet, it should perform well as others really like them. DM
 
I've sometimes noticed how some 'coarse' diamond hones seem not to perform as such, not working nearly as aggressive as they should. I think they can get loaded up or clogged pretty easily, especially on high-chromium content steels (stainless). The end result is a blade that sort of 'skates' across it. There might be something to the idea suggested by HeavyHanded, in his comment about polycrystalline diamond (diamond particles are clumped together). I have noticed the poly diamond hones (usually less expensive) don't seem to perform or cut as aggressively as mono-crystalline hones from DMT and others.

A couple ideas:
I've always noticed that a coarse 'rod-type' sharpener, like diamond or coarse ceramics, leaves much more 'bite' in an edge than a similar or same abrasive used on a flat hone. I'm certain this has much to do with the higher contact pressure exerted on the blade edge by the very narrow contact area. Works very aggressively, and I often go back to using a Sharpmaker or other rod-type sharpener when I'm looking to quickly add some teeth to an otherwise smooth(ish) edge. No need to lean into it; usually just a couple or three passes at very light pressure will do it. Might be worth giving that a try. If you don't have one of the rod/V-crock sharpeners, some coarse wet/dry sandpaper (220 grit) wrapped around a hard edge or dowel can perform similarly, again used with very light pressure.

I recently picked up a Norton 'Economy Stone' (C/F) at Home Depot. It's silicon carbide, and the little bit of fiddling I've done with it so far, leaves the impression it works very aggressively (on both sides; and the coarse has left some really wicked teeth on simpler stainless I tried). The stone is inexpensive, but really works fast. That might be something else to look into.


David
 
ok thanks, so i'm getting that this is normal from this particular steel then?
i guess i'll try to get my hands on some new sharpening supply's soon and try then.

Thanks,
Scott
 
TheGoldenWalrus said:
ok thanks, so i'm getting that this is normal from this particular steel then?
i guess i'll try to get my hands on some new sharpening supply's soon and try then.

Thanks,
Scott
Click to expand...


FWIW I gave up trying to apply a toothy edge to my Sandvik blades. They cut pretty toothy right up to a fairly high polish. I ran into this early on with both of my 12c27 blades and just accepted they like a higher polish. Good news is they still have a lot of bite and good edge retention, even coming off a 6k waterstone or 1 micron compound.
 
I've also noticed that my mora in 12c27 has good bite at say 1000 grit ark stone, but once you start polishing with compounds it sucks. Just glides over oranges, have to push very hard to get the cut started on them. Just basically, once they start to get a mirror polish, it loses it's bite.
 
I've polished my Opinel stainless (12c27Mod) to 2000+ (wet/dry sandpaper, alumox honing film to less than 3 micron, 1 micron diamond stropping), and it's still cutting very well. I gave the same treatment to a carbon-bladed Opinel at the same time, and they've stayed pretty much in lock-step, in terms of cutting/slicing performance. The stainless Opinel seems to hold it's edge better than the carbon (I thinned the edges on both of them), and this seems to confirm what was mentioned earlier about the Sandvik steels possibly taking a heat treat to higher RC. Sandvik specs the 12c27Mod up to RC 59.


David
 
TheGoldenWalrus said:
ok thanks, so i'm getting that this is normal from this particular steel then?
i guess i'll try to get my hands on some new sharpening supply's soon and try then.

Thanks,
Scott
Click to expand...

I just did one of my 12c27 knives on a Norton India stone stropped on newspaper. This thing is very toothy and clean - can just shave facial stubble but doesn't feel so nice doing so. Tried it on my Crystalon silicon carbide stone first, and while it was sharp it didn't have enough of that toothy catch you're probably looking for. Have to see if it can hold this edge for a while.

HH
 
TheGoldenWalrus said:
also by Norton india stone do you mean the IB8?
Click to expand...

That's the one. I'd try it with some mineral oil (Norton's branded honing oil is light mineral oil) first and see what you think before boiling the oil out of it (commonly done when folks don't want to use oil). They do have a slight break in period too, but not bad - they come around faster than a new diamond plate.
 
TheGoldenWalrus said:
ok thanks, will order on asap. and try it out :) will try to get some mineral oil aswell.

Thanks for all the help,
Scott
Click to expand...

The mineral oil can be had at any pharmacy or grocery store - look for it next to the laxatives...

A real nice way to finish the edge off if stropping on plain newspaper isn't doing it for you - put just a drop or two of oil on the stone and give it a good rubbing with an old file, or if you normally grind a bit off the back bevel every time you sharpen a la Murray Carter, that will work too - any hardened steel seems to work. You don't need a ton of it, but enough to color a small puddle light grey. Collect the grey-tinted oil by wiping a sheet of copy or writing paper back and forth on the stone - gently. You're trying to collect the oil, swarf, and any abrasive dust that's been worked loose and put it on the paper to use for a strop. Wrap this paper around the stone nice and tight and strop away with light pressure. The key is to not have too much oil around - the paper should be damp, not soaked. This is a really good method, keeps the edge fairly catchy but if done well will tree-top leg hair (my leg hair anyway). An alternative method but one I haven't played with much is to use the file on the coarse side of the stone - might work better for maintaining/finishing a more coarse edge.

Hope you can understand this bit - I should make a video or at least some pics.

HH

Edit to add: I use an old flat jewelers file because I can just toss it in the box with the stone and its always there. If I'm just touching up an edge I might not have any other convenient way to whip up some swarf, and I usually toss the paper after a couple of uses.
 
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