154-CM, BG-42, VG-10, S30V, ATS-34 etc.... Can you really tell the difference?

M

Murky Depth

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Apr 18, 2005
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Take 3 different blades with 3 different yet similar steels -- but hide the steel type & keep away corrosive elements which might give them away -- and see if you can REALLY distinguish the types. I would imagine that this would be very difficult, even with a battery of cutting & sharpening tests. I could be wrong on this, perhaps there are a fair share of "jedi steel masters" perusing the boards who can tell the difference just by looking. Any thoughts?
 
I doubt if most of could tell the difference between blade-steels, but I have noticed that my ATS-34, 154CM, and S30V blades seem to discolor somewhat, almost tarnish, after handling the blade.

But my 440A, 440C, 420HC, AUS-6, GIN-1, ATS-55, and AUS-8 seem to remain very shiney and polished despite useage.

Allen.
 
I believe I could tell not knowing if the blade steel was ATS34 or 154CM. Because these two repeateadly give me fits getting the kind of biting edge that I like on them.

I think I'd know from the look of the steel and the ease of sharpening if it was VG10 also. All the VG10 blades I've bought have a characteristic wave pattern (for lack of a better description) in the grain. Some almost look Damascus like without the contrast.

Most of the others would be hard to distinquish for me anyway.
 
154CM or ATS34?
No way I can tell between them, or to be honest even between them and 440C.

BG42?
Never had a knife with it.

VG10 or S30V?
Yes, I think so, over time and use, from the same knife company.

440C or VG10 from the same company in the same knife?
Possibly, but can I tell between BM's 440C and Spyderco's VG10? No.

What about D2 or M2 or spring steel or O1 or others?
So much depends on so much other than the raw steel.
 
..yet.But my wallet can certainly tell the smallest differences between these mentioned "super-stainless-steels" and say "plain,old 440C(properly heat treated of course!) and therein lies the crux of our addiction.Did some here say something about the newest concoction ZDP189(?)....a must have for us soon I predict. ;) ;) :D :D
 
BlondieAlmostEdge said:
Take THAT you dead horse!
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Thanks for the meaningful responses except for ^^this one.

Any more thoughts? I figured that this question might have been asked before, but hey, there might be some folks who haven't gotten a chance to give their view on it.
 
By name of steel, probably not. But I can tell the difference after a bunch of cutting. I base this on having Buck 110's in 420HC, BG42,ATS 34and Damascus. Same company, same heattreat and yes I know the performances of each knife.
 
If you gave me one knife with 440C and another with S30V, I could definitely tell the difference, it might take a couple days though, I don't know. If you laid out a whole bunch of knives with several different high quality steels, I don't think I could tell you exactly which is which.
 
If I had them and was doing side by side testing sure we could see the difference. However, without testing and just carrying one and useing it, not testing, I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.
 
Sharpening is where I notice the biggest differences. The next biggest difference is edge holding and the feel of the edge. Some steels finish different also. STR mentioned seeing the carbides in VG-10. I've noticed this also.

If they were unmarked I think I could determine the steels are different, but I don't think I could identify most steels.
 
I was talking to an old time knifemaker friend of mine the other day, he has been making knives, both forged and stock removal for over thirty years and he is well known. We were talking about different steels, I asked him if there was that much difference with all these new steels that have come out in the last few years. What he said was, you can take five different stainless steels and take five different carbon steels, heat treat them perfectly then put the ten knives on a table and there won't be five cents worth of difference from one to another.
 
Murky Depth said:
Take 3 different blades with 3 different yet similar steels -- but hide the steel type ...
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It isn't difficult to tell many steels apart if you use them for similar things within a period of time where you can compare the details or are just really familiar with one and it is almost a built in benchmark.

Who is heat treating them makes a difference as well, Thom has had S30V blades rehardened by Wilson and noted a difference in performance as there was a signifiant HC jump.

The biggest factors in if you can see a difference is your ability to sharpen consistency and your general standard for cutting ability.

If your finished edges just slice paper and you cut with a knife until it is so dull you can use a lot of force and not even have it break skin then pretty much every steel is the same.

If however then you consider a knife to be sharp when it easily push cuts fine newsprint, and you think it needs sharpening when you feel it start to slide and not cut, then steels will readily stand out as different.

You don't need a pen and pad to do this either, in various tasks the performance can be many times to one so you are comparing a garbage bag of cardboard to a sobey's bag.

The more work you do and the harder you do it the more these things stand out as well, cut a few pieces of paper and cardboard a day vs spend a few hours slicing it up every day makes a rather large difference.

-Cliff
 
154 vs ATS34 is pretty much impossible, since they're almost completley identical. The maker/heattreat has more to do with any difference than actual steel.

S30V compared to the 2 above is difficult at first glance, but over time, the difference will show. First, the edge holding, then the way it sharpens.

VG10 feels very different to me, both in the edge (very bitey) and sharpening.

Never used BG42.

Mostly, advantages/disadvantages, and other characteristics only show after time and use, and sharpening. If I was given a few identical blades in different steels, I'm fairly confident that I could ID them, but only after significant use. But even then, I wouldn't be supprized if I guessed wrongly. As said previously, and by other people, differences have as much to do with the different makers as the steel itself. I know what Benchmade's 154CM is like, and I know what Spyderco's VG10 is like, but if BM made a knife in VG10 and Spyderco made one in 154CM (or an old ATS34 Military perhaps), damned if I'd know the difference if I wasn't told, or given ample opprotunity to test. I'd at the very least have to reprofile them myself, since the actual edge of the knife from the factory by each company is very different.
 
Whille there are knives I like and knives I don't, I couldn't tell if a knife was made of D2 or ATS-34 or whatever.
 
I can tell the difference between a good heat treat (and hence, probably, good steel) and a ****** heat treat when sharpening, but not between specific steels.

I think there's a noticably difference between stainless and non-stainless when sharpening, but you'd have to do a double blind test to prove it...
 
I can tell the difference between VG10, S30V and BG 42 based upon wear. I can also tell the difference between S30V and the others based upon how the edge feels. Keep in mind this is with my knives, and my sharpening.

I am nowhere near being a jedi steel sharpener whatever.

I have (at least) 3 Buck 110's, 420HC, BG 42, and S30V. I can tell them apart, mainly by how long the edge lasts while cutting abrasive materials. A little bit by how they sharpen up. I'll bet with a little practice and observation, anyone can.
 
I think that visually it's almost impossible to guess the right steel, because it depends on many factors, like the grinding, the heat treatment and finishing. Not to mention the ambiental light.
I can visually make the difference between my ATS-55 Delica and the VG-10 one because I used them a lot and I know them, but should someone gives me two brand new ones, chances are I'd miss big time.
If I'd use a few knives for a while, and if I had some pertinent infos about them (like one of them is ATS-34, one is VG-10, one is also ATS-34 heat treated by Paul Bos aso.), I could make some educate assumptions and maybe, I said maybe I could find the right ones. But I think it would be too much a matter of chance though. :(
 
Murky Depth said:
Take 3 different blades with 3 different yet similar steels -- but hide the steel type & keep away corrosive elements which might give them away -- and see if you can REALLY distinguish the types. I would imagine that this would be very difficult, even with a battery of cutting & sharpening tests. I could be wrong on this, perhaps there are a fair share of "jedi steel masters" perusing the boards who can tell the difference just by looking. Any thoughts?
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The best answer is, "It depends". Certain steels will hold up better under certain conditions. Certain steels are easier for the maker to work. Etc. Etc. Etc.

http://www.ajh-knives.com/metals.html

For most around the house duty it probably doesn't make any difference.

However for certain trade and crafts knives have been designed just for their purpose.
 
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