154CM out, now back in?

DaveH

DaveH

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
12,249
Can someone clue me in on this?

154CM was "in" many years ago, then it's my understanding the quality slipped and makers switched to ATS-34.

Now we see increasing use of 154CM. Why is that, price of ATS-34 too high now? Is 154CM as good as it used to be?

DaveH
 
Dave,
I don't think the quality of 154CM slipped, I think there became a question of availability to knifemakers.
Then Japan started producing ATS34 in sizes the knifemakers could get and it was ALMOST the same as 154.
This availability of a good steel is why it came "in".
Now 154CM is once more available from local suppliers in knifemakers size and quantites, and some would say it is better than ATS34.
 
The reason why Ats34 was used over 154CM is simply because during the time manufacturers wanted 154CM, it was not available in larger quantities needed.

(Edited mistakes
wink.gif
)
154CM was originally designed for use in airplane engine turbines.

------------------
Dave

My collection

[This message has been edited because I don't pay enough attention to detail
biggrin.gif
]

[This message has been edited by David2584 (edited 01-18-2001).]
 
Dave, check a metallurgy chart. Spyderco has one on their site. ATS-34 and 154-CM are similar, but not the same thing. I have seen a bit better performance out of 154-CM. They are most definately NOT the same steel.
 
I don't think that 154CM was available in rolled sheet stock at the time that ATS34 strated to become popular. It also had some alleged impurity problems. All those have been resolved and 154 CM is now available in the formats the makers need. Either steel is considered excellent for cutlery purposes. As for as I know, the steels are very similar, but not identical.
 
Ok Tique, you've got me.
smile.gif
I was darned sure they were the same...I swear I heard they were the same a while back. Well anyways, thanks for correcting me.

------------------
Dave

My collection
 
Looking strictly at content they are very similar probably within one or two percentage points of each other. And they were probably developed for the same markets and what not. On the Benchmade forum, a poster with (apparently) some metallurgic background mentioned the main difference is in specific heat characteristics such that 154CM can take a higher heat before melting, possibly giving it some different behavior from good heat treating?

It seems that where BM overcooks there ATS-34, I had also heard that 154 was their first choice for an all USA product. Perhaps they never bothered to reset the parameters for heat treat and now with 154CM they are getting better results. At least that is my opinion of their 154CM blades.

Phil
 
Aside from the availability issue, my own, admittedly subjection impression, is that the 2 steels are not the same in perfomance. I've got a Wegner jr. (ATS-34) and a MT S. Elite in 154. The Elite holds an edge longer and seems to have finer grain allowing a sharper edge. In addition it seems easier to sharpen. I swear that blade cuts better than any other in the house including fillet knives. Based on this if given a choice, I prefer 154. Jack
 
Based on my experience working with and using both steels, which BTW are heat treated exactly the same, 154CM has finer grain and does seem to hold its edge a little longer. 154CM takes a much nicer polish in my judgement, likely because of the finer grain. It is also less dependent on grain orientation, since it is cross-rolled (rolled in one direction, rotated 90 degrees and rerolled) and ATS is not.

As to which the factories use, that likely has become more dependent on where the knives are made. If made in the US, 154CM is competitively priced. If made in Japan or Taiwan it clearly is at a disadvantage.

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
The New Tom & Jerry Show
 
Nice to hear from you, Jerry. Someone who should know.

That pretty much confirms what I and others have been commenting on (I think); 154 feels sharper and seems to hold its edge just as long. I'm surprised to hear that they are both heat treated the same, but I guess I shouldn't be.

I had suspected that you were taking a liking to 154CM, since the last few knives that I have seen posted around here were 154CM instead of ATS-34.

------------------
I've seen a look in dogs' eyes, a quickly vanishing look of amazed contempt, and I am convinced that basically dogs think humans are nuts. -- John Steinbeck
Dog does not eat dog. - Juvenal

iktomi
 
The main reason for the resurgance of 154CM is the method of purification now used: AOD (Argon Oxygen Decarburization). For a full discussion of this by a CPM metallurgist, go here

The minor elemental differences in various steel charts are reflective of the variation in different lots of steel. The elemental composition of 154CM and ATS-34 may be considered identical for practical purposes.

Walt
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top