So ive seen "reviews" of steel online.. even comparative reviews, but they all disagree, and none of them have the information i want. Lets say i a knife that will keep the sharpest edge for the longest time, during camping applications (wood, food, rope, etc)... which steel is it? and out of 154cm and s30v, which is better for the above application, is there a big difference? Thanks in advance!
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154cm v s30v v others?
- Thread starter Northerr
- Start date
Well, depends on whether they are treated right, but in principle S30V is both finer grained and more abrasion resistant. So it is in principle pretty much a direct upgrade. Whether it is a big difference you would have to decide for yourself. Considering the bickering about this question seems to indicate that there is not too much of a consensus, which would again indicate that the difference can't be all that great. Neither are tough or fine grained in comparison to Carbon/tool steels (excluding D2).
The answer to your first question depends very much on geometry hardness and whether you need corrosion resistance or not.
The answer to your first question depends very much on geometry hardness and whether you need corrosion resistance or not.
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Both are excellent, S30V will cut slightly longer, but 154CM is a competitive and affordable alternative.
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Exactly! I did a test run with my BM 556 (in 154CM) and Bm 558 (S30V). My test was to cut a wooden dowel and make it into a sharpened point. After both knives completed the task, the Bm 556(154CM) would not shave, the 558(S30V) would shave but was not super scary sharp. *Note both knives were scary sharp before the test was done.
So, if you can afford to get the S30V than get it if you would like. You can not really tell a difference at all. The 154 Cm will sharpen easier, but will also dull faster. Its your chouce. I say get what you like in 154CM and if you still love the knife, get the same thing in S30V if they offer it!
In general S30V will hold an edge longer then 154CM/ATS-34 (and I'll lump VG-10 in there too). But you will have to cut a lot of stuff
to know the difference.
The key isn't just the steel choice.. it's edge and blade geometries.
A lower end steel can beat out a higher end steel if the
lower end steel knife has a superior edge and blade geometry.
to know the difference.
The key isn't just the steel choice.. it's edge and blade geometries.
A lower end steel can beat out a higher end steel if the
lower end steel knife has a superior edge and blade geometry.
Your applications suggest fairly soft materials. For wood I am assuming you arent chopping it, just cutting it to make tent pegs, fuzz sticks, tinder for starting fires, etc. For the above applications, I would say that M2 hardened to between 64 and 66 HRc and given an edge about 10 degrees per side on a full flat grind would keep a razor edge for a longer time, however, the hardness and geometry would prevent any batoning, chopping, etc. You could add a very small bevel (often called a micro-bevel, since it is sometimes too small to see w/o mag) at 15 degrees per side to enhance durability if you see edge chipping from wood whittling, although I have read of softer steels not chipping on wood at angles of 15 degrees total, not per side. A blade made of 8670M or L6 at over 60 HRc might work better if you plan for any chopping or batoning, although you need to be carful of twisting in the cut. The steels you mention will hold a hair shaving edge for quite a while, though I only have experience with 154CM. They work better with more obtuse angles, say 12 degrees w/ a microbevel at 17 to 20.
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I don't think I'd want either S30V or 154CM on a chopper blade or on anything with a larger blade than 4". Their edge retension comes at the expense of lower toughness. Like me2, I'd go for carbon steel for a chopper.
And I agree with msiley that geometry can often outweigh blade steel for performance.
I don't think the difference between 154CM and S30V is extreme. I think either would be good for general cutting chores, with the exceptions noted above. But most think that S30V will maintain an edge longer than 154CM. S30V blades sometimes have chipping issues. Most don't. Haven't heard anyone complain about 154CM blades chipping.
Northerr, the reason you can't find a simple single answer to your question is that there is none to be had. There is no one steel that works best for everyone or for every purpose. Each steel has a combination of properties. Everybody's usage is different, so each needs a different combination of properties.
I usually try to define what it is I want a blade to do, then look for a combination of design and steel that will best allow the knife to fulfill that function.
And I agree with msiley that geometry can often outweigh blade steel for performance.
I don't think the difference between 154CM and S30V is extreme. I think either would be good for general cutting chores, with the exceptions noted above. But most think that S30V will maintain an edge longer than 154CM. S30V blades sometimes have chipping issues. Most don't. Haven't heard anyone complain about 154CM blades chipping.
Northerr, the reason you can't find a simple single answer to your question is that there is none to be had. There is no one steel that works best for everyone or for every purpose. Each steel has a combination of properties. Everybody's usage is different, so each needs a different combination of properties.
I usually try to define what it is I want a blade to do, then look for a combination of design and steel that will best allow the knife to fulfill that function.
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- Aug 30, 2006
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Once you get into any of these high-grade steels -- plus ATS-34 and in some cases AUS-8, 10 -- how well the blade is ground matters way more. IOW, if you looking at a mid-range knife choose the brand/model that has the best craftsmanship and any of these steels will be fine.
IMO, the difference between 154-CM and S30V really only matters once you get into better quality knives. Almost all my VG-10s are better than my BM Skirmish in S30V -- the grind is just so-so from the factory. But by far the sharpest knife I own both out of the box and still, is my Sebenza in S30V -- the blade is so beautifully ground you can really appreciate the steel.
Most of the (non-Byrd) Spydercos in VG-10 will come sharper and stay sharper for the price than just about any production knife in 154-cm, again IMO. And don't forget, if you plan to use it regularly, you'll need to sharpen it regularly and the harder Rockwells are much harder to re-sharpen.
IMO, the difference between 154-CM and S30V really only matters once you get into better quality knives. Almost all my VG-10s are better than my BM Skirmish in S30V -- the grind is just so-so from the factory. But by far the sharpest knife I own both out of the box and still, is my Sebenza in S30V -- the blade is so beautifully ground you can really appreciate the steel.
Most of the (non-Byrd) Spydercos in VG-10 will come sharper and stay sharper for the price than just about any production knife in 154-cm, again IMO. And don't forget, if you plan to use it regularly, you'll need to sharpen it regularly and the harder Rockwells are much harder to re-sharpen.
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- Mar 7, 2003
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I would think, that the possibility that you discover a difference between two blades due to production tolerances is much larger, than to discover a real difference between these two steel grades.
Take the one from the maker / manufacturer with the better customer feed back.
Take the one from the maker / manufacturer with the better customer feed back.
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The worst to resharpen were the softer blades, which easily took and kept the burr, like the SAK.
Another example of "hard to sharpen" but not because of the burr, were my "Wusthoff" - kitchen knifes. Hardness about HRC 55, but steel quality was lower than Benchmade D2. Meaning the Wusthoff must have had a coarser grain or larger average caride size than the D2 from BM or other harder blades.
It is the amount and size of carbides that make it hard to sharpen. Of course you need the right tools too. But that would lead to far.