154CM vs 154CM

S

SuzukiGS750EZ

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Dec 30, 2008
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How does Emerson's 154 compare to benchmade sad far as heat treat and such? I do a lot of outdoor activities and as such I plan to carry the knife in the woods with me. How about fresh water exposure? Does the edge stay stable when prying sideways in say, wood? How about penetrating thick plastic like trash cans and such.
 
Cutting heater hose in cars, holes in trash cans from time to time to release garbage bag suction. Whittling up some wood for stakes to cook over fires. Zip ties. and then the normal packages, bags, etc. I don't really pry with knives, if i do it's something plastic that i cant easily open.
 
Emersons are made for hard use in the field and used by many soldiers and profectionals, I'm sure it will handle all the tasks you thrown at it. The 154cm hasn't rust on me but I don't use it around water a lot so can't say much about it. Regards prying and stabbing, I don't recommend you use your knife as a prybar, however, I did use my cqc13 to pry an old oven out of its wood frame and replace a new one for my buddy's appartment. It held up like a champ! And the metal can that I stabbed lastnight still here, not a thin aluminum rather a thicker metal tea can! Again, you really shouldn't use your knife to do that, but if you questioning the capability of Emersons then here you go!^^
 
I don't really like Emerson's 154cm. I have noticed it to be too soft to a point where I have had the edge roll over from cutting a zip tie. On the bright side it is easier to sharpen I suppose.
 
general consensus has been less hardness which means more flexible, easier to maintain and means it holds edge for shorter time frames
 
Try an Emerson. Just use common sense. A fixed blade might be another option.
rolf
Hi Ben.
 
Emerson's 154cm will hold as well if not better than other company's 154cm. That said, being a stainless steel, 154cm has limitations in terms of toughness, corrosion resistance, etc. so that is something to keep in mind.
 
Is Metal Made Fox the Emerson sub-forums designated troll? If not he should be, he embodies the stereotypical Emerson basher; guys perfect. He's got that perfect mix of unfounded and over exaggerated claims, coupled with that snarky righteous attitude that one would expect from the kind of person who feels entitled to something because they drive a nice car, or take offense to a joke because they know someone whose had [fill in blank]... In short I think he's perfect for the job. Despite clearly disliking EKI he takes considerable time out of his day to post as I've said before his exaggerated and unfounded claims in an attempt to rustle everyone's jimmies.

image.jpg
 
My mini-15 and micro-Comm have helped me do home repair, worked on the job in a sporting goods warehouse, installed computers, made kindling for fires out of larger pieces of wood... etc. All I've ever done is put some marks in the black coating on the mini-15's blade. The micro-Comm is satin and I've never had a corrosion issue with it. I've also never damaged the edge on an Emerson. I've rolled part of the mini-15 edge couple of times repairing stuff around the house, but it was a quick fix. Emerson's 154CM responds very nicely to a loaded leather strop and... if necessary... the corner of a Sharpmaker rod.
 
OnionPoptarts said:
Is Metal Made Fox the Emerson sub-forums designated troll? If not he should be, he embodies the stereotypical Emerson basher; guys perfect. He's got that perfect mix of unfounded and over exaggerated claims, coupled with that snarky righteous attitude that one would expect from the kind of person who feels entitled to something because they drive a nice car, or take offense to a joke because they know someone whose had [fill in blank]... In short I think he's perfect for the job. Despite clearly disliking EKI he takes considerable time out of his day to post as I've said before his exaggerated and unfounded claims in an attempt to rustle everyone's jimmies.

View attachment 435407
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Haha!
He's the Duro of the EKI sub forum!
 
S me steel, different heat treat I would suspect. The softer steel is said to allow for easier sharpening in the field with just about anything (concrete, asphalt, rebar, whatever) and an increase in toughness. The harder steel would require a specific grit stone/implement to sharpen and may not be as tough.
 
The only edge issue I have ever had with Emerson steel is when I thinned the edge of a CQC11 too much, when I hit a metal staple cutting down a shipping box the edge chipped instead of rolling. But that was my fault for setting the edge bevel to about 18 degrees. As for rust, I do live in a high humidity part of the country and I have had very minor surface rust around the etched logo after having the knife in sweaty jeans all day long. No biggie though, a little tuf-glide and a few swipes with a rag and the rust is all gone.


/dusty
 
As has been said, Emerson runs his 154CM a little softer, because "a dull knife is still a knife...a broken knife isn't", something like that at least. Frankly I love his treatment of 154CM, and would put it against most steels in terms of all around usability, durability, and ease of sharpening.
 
It's the best 154CM offering on the market in my opinion. I have never noticed a difference in edge holding with an Emerson or a Benchmade to be honest but I do notice the increased ease of sharpening with my Emersons and I have put them through hard use and never had any issues with the edge.

Personally, I think people take the edge retention issue too far. It seems like the majority of people think that edge retention is the most important attribute in a knife. If the knife holds an edge like Emerson's 154CM and is easily sharpened and decently tough, that's where I think a knife should be treated. CRK follows the same sort of philosophy, too. I'll trade off a bit of edge retention for toughness ANY DAY OF THE WEEK.

YMMV.
 
Metal Made Fox said:
I don't really like Emerson's 154cm. I have noticed it to be too soft to a point where I have had the edge roll over from cutting a zip tie. On the bright side it is easier to sharpen I suppose.
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Zip ties are very hard to cut, they are tough plastic. I use a lot of zip ties on my job, and I have tried many knives to cut them. I have rolled the edge of my Griptillian, my para 2, my Emerson A-100, and a few knives with AUS 8, and a few slip joints with whatever steel they use.

My point is if your cutting a lot of Zip ties, your going to roll some edges, unless your using unobtainium.

I have found Emerson's blade steel to perform just as well as anything for most reasonable tasks.

By the way, I find the most usable and durable blades for my needs in my job (cutting zip ties, wires and cable) are these.
a3b8b343ce4a85a79cbb43f4b392005b_zps34f29e6d.jpg

I carry them in a pouch on my belt always. Not as cool or fun as a nice knife, but in reality, more useful most of the time.
 
ebidis said:
Zip ties are very hard to cut, they are tough plastic. I use a lot of zip ties on my job, and I have tried many knives to cut them. I have rolled the edge of my Griptillian, my para 2, my Emerson A-100, and a few knives with AUS 8, and a few slip joints with whatever steel they use.

My point is if your cutting a lot of Zip ties, your going to roll some edges, unless your using unobtainium.

I have found Emerson's blade steel to perform just as well as anything for most reasonable tasks.

By the way, I find the most usable and durable blades for my needs in my job (cutting zip ties, wires and cable) are these.
a3b8b343ce4a85a79cbb43f4b392005b_zps34f29e6d.jpg

I carry them in a pouch on my belt always. Not as cool or fun as a nice knife, but in reality, more useful most of the time.[/QUOTE

Perfectamundo. I also am one of the ding dong heads that carry scissors on their persons everyday. Mine are a folding pair that have paid for themselves five years ago. FWIW that is the term that was given to me by some guy who saw that I carried a separate pair of scissors. I love my scissors. He asked to borrow them once. I told him to buy his own pair like I did - heh.
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I can't say I see a huge difference between the Emerson and Benchmade 154CM I have used. The consensus often seems that Emerson tends to favor toughness and Benchmade tends to favor edge retention. Much like Benchmade and ProTech, Emerson is very competent at the heat treatment for 154 and the end-result is a very usable blade that is made to handle a variety of tasks.

I think the blade grind itself makes a big difference here too. For example, I have a saber-ground ProTech in 154CM which gives impressive edge toughness and part of this is probably the grind/geometry. As I consider Emersons to have good edge geometry, I believe this will help really get the best performance out of their 154CM and give good performance all-around.



BUT, I see a huge difference between 154CM and CPM-154. Especially in regards to edge retention and even more so toughness, I find CPM-154CM to be superior to 154CM on a scale of something like ELMAX to good 440C. It's toughness and edge retention makes CPM-154CM a monster and more comparable to higher-hardness 60+ ELMAX or S35VN, IMO, and it has a toughness that can back a 61+ HRC better than most other stainless steels can at that hardness. CPM-154 is probably my favorite general-usage steel as it is just outstanding across the board and I understand why custom makers love the stuff.

So one of my criticisms for Benchmade, Emerson, Pro-Tech, and any others making $200+ knives of 154CM is that they are not using CPM-154 at that price where as Kershaw and ZT have on less expensive knives. Independent, credible tests show the difference between the two is not subtle at all, and at that price-point I think it justifies the more expensive and better-performing CPM-154.
 
pnsxyr said:
BUT, I see a huge difference between 154CM and CPM-154. Especially in regards to edge retention and even more so toughness, I find CPM-154CM to be superior to 154CM on a scale of something like ELMAX to good 440C. It's toughness and edge retention makes CPM-154CM a monster and more comparable to higher-hardness 60+ ELMAX or S35VN, IMO, and it has a toughness that can back a 61+ HRC better than most other stainless steels can at that hardness. CPM-154 is probably my favorite general-usage steel as it is just outstanding across the board and I understand why custom makers love the stuff.

So one of my criticisms for Benchmade, Emerson, Pro-Tech, and any others making $200+ knives of 154CM is that they are not using CPM-154 at that price where as Kershaw and ZT have on less expensive knives. Independent, credible tests show the difference between the two is not subtle at all, and at that price-point I think it justifies the more expensive and better-performing CPM-154.
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I also have noticed a huge difference between CPM and regular 154. I love CPM 154 and wish i could get it on more knives. I know emerson has said on multiple occasions he doesn't just jump on any new steel that comes along, but i feel like CPM 154 is established and is just a better way of making 154cm.
 
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