-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
156OT Knockoff!
- Thread starter OTguy
- Start date
textoothpk
BANNED
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2003
- Messages
- 2,386
The link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6511991012
The ripoff and the 156 I just recieved in a trade here at the forum:
The conclusion: Looks Pakistani to me.
Devils advocate: Are the Camillus 'Grandpa' designs any less a rip off?
The poster: Phil
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6511991012
The ripoff and the 156 I just recieved in a trade here at the forum:
The conclusion: Looks Pakistani to me.
Devils advocate: Are the Camillus 'Grandpa' designs any less a rip off?
The poster: Phil
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
The 156OT Little Finger blade was one of the more sucessful fixed Schrade knives during my "field tests" this fall and winter. One would think that the blade length would not be sufficient for large game skinning and butchering chores, but the little knife worked just fine, and quickly became one of my favorites. They were introduced in 1979 and last produced in 1985, so they had a relatively short production run, at least compared with the succesful 152 (1974-2004).
Is this a knockoff? Possibly, but I guess it could be a rehandle job or maybe a recently finished original blank. I have seen several custom handled 152's on Ebay made from post shutdown blanks. I don't think Taylor is producing Schrades yet.
The Camillus Gran' Pa series? I am still curious about the story behind those. Perhaps they bought a license to produce them from Taylor, or no license was required because the patent had expired. Patents have a definate lifespan for a good reason. They allow the owner to benifit from his idea either directly by producing an item or licensing someone else to produce it. They have to allow the patent to be published for the world to see, and renew the patent fees at regular intervals. When the patent expires, the idea, design, item becomes public domain and anyone can produce it. A "for the good of mankind" type of thing.
Not surprisingly, the seller does not say if it is Pakastani, Chinese, or a U.S. product. Nor does he show a tang stamp. But those colorful handle laminations sure do look familiar. And it is listed in this catagory: Fixed Blade Knives > Modern (1970 - Now) > Factory Manufactured > Unbranded
And with a BIN of $3.95, you know it is a valuable item!
Is this a knockoff? Possibly, but I guess it could be a rehandle job or maybe a recently finished original blank. I have seen several custom handled 152's on Ebay made from post shutdown blanks. I don't think Taylor is producing Schrades yet.
The Camillus Gran' Pa series? I am still curious about the story behind those. Perhaps they bought a license to produce them from Taylor, or no license was required because the patent had expired. Patents have a definate lifespan for a good reason. They allow the owner to benifit from his idea either directly by producing an item or licensing someone else to produce it. They have to allow the patent to be published for the world to see, and renew the patent fees at regular intervals. When the patent expires, the idea, design, item becomes public domain and anyone can produce it. A "for the good of mankind" type of thing.
Not surprisingly, the seller does not say if it is Pakastani, Chinese, or a U.S. product. Nor does he show a tang stamp. But those colorful handle laminations sure do look familiar. And it is listed in this catagory: Fixed Blade Knives > Modern (1970 - Now) > Factory Manufactured > Unbranded
And with a BIN of $3.95, you know it is a valuable item!
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"...you would think they would at least put natural wood or something on the handles instead of that "Bozo" patterned colors...does anyone else just get flat annoyed at multi-colored laminate?...I sure do....who buys this stuff? My hunting buddies would get banned from our state for even owning, let alone using a "BozoBlade"...
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,462
I'm no expert on Schrades (INCOMING!!!)..........
But I don't think the top line of that "Skinner"..
..is the same. The blade looks more "leaf-shaped" to me than the nice Schrade. It is mighty close in overall look, however. Except for the scales. Those scales..oh,my...they are.......well......"fugly" is the term that comes to mind.. 
I think the - Buy It Now - is overpriced.
Bill
But I don't think the top line of that "Skinner"..
..is the same. The blade looks more "leaf-shaped" to me than the nice Schrade. It is mighty close in overall look, however. Except for the scales. Those scales..oh,my...they are.......well......"fugly" is the term that comes to mind.. I think the - Buy It Now - is overpriced.
Bill
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
By golly Bill, I think you are right about the blade shape and I notice the grind does not continue all the way to the bolster like on the real deal. And of course on a closer look, the rivets are located differently. Also the shape of the finger rest on the front bolster is a bit different too. While it is quite apparent who the "daddy" of this ba.... badboy knife is, it is not an exact clone. I think we will see quite a number of these erzatz copies of expired patent Schrades popping up now.
So pfffft! to my suggestion that it is a Schrade blank finished post production!
So pfffft! to my suggestion that it is a Schrade blank finished post production!
As far as the Camillus Granpa series being a knockoff, doesn't the same parent corp. that owned Schrade also own Camillus. Not sure about this, but I seem to remember some talk about this from quite a while back. If thats true, then maybe they retained some production rights. I guess I don't consider the Cam. versions a knockoff so much as a continuation of production by another US company.
I was kind of shocked that this design was being made in paki/china, but I guess I shouldn't be anymore. SMKW has a line of knives called Sawmill cutlery made overseas and in that line they have been selling a 165OT clone for several years, sheath even has a stone pocket. I should probably get used to seeing this more in the future.
I was kind of shocked that this design was being made in paki/china, but I guess I shouldn't be anymore. SMKW has a line of knives called Sawmill cutlery made overseas and in that line they have been selling a 165OT clone for several years, sheath even has a stone pocket. I should probably get used to seeing this more in the future.
The price, handle, sheath and box all say cheap to me.
Opinions on the subject of ripoff/knockoff:
When a design is new, particularly if there is a patent on it, it is wrong to copy it, but time goes bye, patents expire, designs become popular/traditional and it becomes acceptable for anyone to make it, specially if the design is from a now nonexistent company. So anybody can make a Barlow, a folding plier multitool, a brass bolstered lockback folding hunter (is there a name for a Buck 110 clone?), etc.. In a way Camillus is keeping some fine designs alive.
About colored wood, I do not particularly like it, though I think pakawood is fine in a natural wood color and I now regret once having let go a Schrade Barlow because it had green wood handles. I've seen colored wood handles in quality knives like Sheffield Rodgers and French Laguioles, regarding this particular particular knife and its handle colors, as we say in Mexico "I don't know whether to laugh or to cry".
Luis
Opinions on the subject of ripoff/knockoff:
When a design is new, particularly if there is a patent on it, it is wrong to copy it, but time goes bye, patents expire, designs become popular/traditional and it becomes acceptable for anyone to make it, specially if the design is from a now nonexistent company. So anybody can make a Barlow, a folding plier multitool, a brass bolstered lockback folding hunter (is there a name for a Buck 110 clone?), etc.. In a way Camillus is keeping some fine designs alive.
About colored wood, I do not particularly like it, though I think pakawood is fine in a natural wood color and I now regret once having let go a Schrade Barlow because it had green wood handles. I've seen colored wood handles in quality knives like Sheffield Rodgers and French Laguioles, regarding this particular particular knife and its handle colors, as we say in Mexico "I don't know whether to laugh or to cry".
Luis
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,462
I agree with Luis that Pakawood, in more natural colors, makes seviceable/useful scales. That being said........
If I owned this knife....and since there is no reserve......nah....if I owned this knife, I would take my chances and put IT in the sheath upside down.
Bill
If I owned this knife....and since there is no reserve......nah....if I owned this knife, I would take my chances and put IT in the sheath upside down.
Bill
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2002
- Messages
- 2,462
Eh hem,
Thank you for the gentle prodding, libbyhuck....I'm oh so close to "taking off the rubber band." But, I may hold out for a little snazzier handle. Maybe one that glows in the dark. Then I wouldn't have to hide the handle inside the sheath.....or maybe I still would.
Oh Phil.......is this anything like that Christmas knife you wouldn't show us?
Bill
Thank you for the gentle prodding, libbyhuck....I'm oh so close to "taking off the rubber band." But, I may hold out for a little snazzier handle. Maybe one that glows in the dark. Then I wouldn't have to hide the handle inside the sheath.....or maybe I still would.
Oh Phil.......is this anything like that Christmas knife you wouldn't show us?
Bill
Dang that's Ugly! I expect China or Pakistan, even though the tang isn't stamped. Perhaps imported through Mexico? I doubt any US manufacturer would go to that much trouble for $3.95.
I don't have a problem with other companies making "knock-offs" of Schrade designs. Schrade won't make any more for us... I wish the designs weren't horribly abused though.
-Bob
I don't have a problem with other companies making "knock-offs" of Schrade designs. Schrade won't make any more for us... I wish the designs weren't horribly abused though.
-Bob
Bill...I saw a similar knife a while back that had a small, working cross-bow built into the sheath...I believe this knife would fit nicely into the Crossbow Sheath....you could use this knife as "bait" to lure in them curious Arizona lizards...what with its bright handle and all... and attempt to round up the fixin's for "lizard pie"....only drawback was the Crossbow Sheath Quiver was equipped w/only 2 darts...so shoot center...ok..I am done messin' w/you!El Lobo said:Eh hem,
Thank you for the gentle prodding, libbyhuck....I'm oh so close to "taking off the rubber band." But, I may hold out for a little snazzier handle. Maybe one that glows in the dark. Then I wouldn't have to hide the handle inside the sheath.....or maybe I still would.
Oh Phil.......is this anything like that Christmas knife you wouldn't show us?
Bill
While we're on the subject of imitations, ebay auction 6517644539 is a interesting copy of the 152OT. I've never seen this model before, anybody else know anything about this knife? Probably have to take this to the Boker forum, but I thought I'd ask here first. Looks like a nice knife, I like the redbone scales.
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
The seller of 6511991012 confirms that it is a stainless product of Pakistan.
A Boker Red Fox UC155 with a peach seed red bone handle made by United Boker Solinger, Germany ? Hmmmm.... Fasten your seatbelts folks, we are in for an interesting ride!
And we know we have the Camillus version, the "Fixed Blade Hunter" GP152B
Well, at least two of them are being treated with respect they deserve.
I hope someone is cataloging (if not collecting) these varients and offsprings of Schrade knives (Besides some obscure I.P. Law attorneys). It will make an interesting chapter to the definative Schrade history book.
Codger
A Boker Red Fox UC155 with a peach seed red bone handle made by United Boker Solinger, Germany ? Hmmmm.... Fasten your seatbelts folks, we are in for an interesting ride!
And we know we have the Camillus version, the "Fixed Blade Hunter" GP152B
Well, at least two of them are being treated with respect they deserve.
I hope someone is cataloging (if not collecting) these varients and offsprings of Schrade knives (Besides some obscure I.P. Law attorneys). It will make an interesting chapter to the definative Schrade history book.
Codger
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
Codger_64 said:
I asked the good folks at Boker about the UC155, and their response confirmed my suspicion about the model numbers:
This is not a Boker knife, it is a knife by United Cutlery. Let me know if you have any additional questions.
Best regards,
Customer Service
BOKER USA, INC.
So perhaps this is a partial answer to the question of what has/will become of the Schrade WIP purchased by United Cutlery? Anon?
Codger_64
Moderator
- Joined
- Oct 8, 2004
- Messages
- 62,324
Here is a Pakastani Sharpfinger knockoff in living technicolor that Disney never dreamed of, imported under the "Chipaway" label #7162352560 .
Also black pakawood 138 patterns are showing up, at least in black laminations, but labled "Deer Hunter" in a Chipaway box with an elk on it. Or maybe it is a wierd Pakastani elk/deer hybrid.
Codger
Also black pakawood 138 patterns are showing up, at least in black laminations, but labled "Deer Hunter" in a Chipaway box with an elk on it. Or maybe it is a wierd Pakastani elk/deer hybrid.
Codger