15n20 vs 80crv2

rodriguez7

rodriguez7

Gila wilderness knife works
Joined
Feb 1, 2009
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hows it going? So I'm a new knife maker, just started messing around about a month ago, bought a cheap grizzly grinder to start, built a cheap forge, and I've been doing my homework for a while now. I built a new batch of knives, sent them off to peters and finished them recently, I'm really happy with how they came out. So recently I bought some 15n20, and built a few test blades, tried my hand at heat treating with my backyard equipment, and so far I'm pretty happy. Sold a few blades to friends, who seem to be rather impressed. But knowing how my friends use knives, I'm wanting to go a slightly thicker stock. So I'm wondering what the toughness difference is between these two steels. Right now I'm heat treating my 15n20 to right past magnetic, soaking 12 minutes, quenching in 130 degree canola, double tempering at 300, then drawing the spine back with a torch. The results are good so far. But would 80crv2 give better results. Or am I over thinking things? The last blade, I left it through hardened, and in a flex test it snapped around 50 degrees. These are .120 stock. Knife use, is edc/hunter type blades. Thanks for any help.
 
I would recommend 80crv2 a thousand times over. That is the steel I learned on, the vanadium helps prevent grain growth a bit from over heating making it a forgiving steel to HT. And it preforms very well once you get used to it and improve you skills. You can make large choppers from it or small neck knives, its a great all around steel. That being said 15n20 was the second steel I learned to work with, its another wonderful steel to work with. 80crv2 is a much easier steel to learn with and will give you much better results, in my opinion its better than 15n20 in every way. 80crv2 can be a juggernaut of steels with a good HT

You say you do 12min soaks, what kind of heat source do you use? It is extremely hard to do an accurate soak without a kiln for something like 5min, 12min is insane. I use a gas forge and took me about a year to get down just a 5min soak. I'm not saying it cant be done, but 12min is very hard (especially if you are using something like coal). For 80crv2 with limited equipment: heat slightly above nonmagnetic, hold that shade evenly as long as you can ( even just under a minute is ok, try not to over heat. The vanadium helps but grain growth is still possible ), quench ( I use warm canola oil too, when heated up well it can be a decently fast oil ), then admittedly temper at around between around 425F ( you can do lower but 425F is perfect IMO. You can draw back the spine if you prefer, I don't prefer doing this but that's my preference ).

What thickness stock are you looking for? to me .12" stock is a good thickness for a knife, just get a good HT process sorted out. A thicker blade will take away from cutting performance, especially for a hunting/EDC knife which is doing cutting tasks. A thin light knife is what you should be shooting for. I would recommend some 1/8" 80crv2, thinner blades cut better. Thickness isn't the only factor for toughness, thin blades can be tough with a good HT.

Practice a lot and keep giving them to people to test, ask them to give you feed back. Even if its small stuff other people testing your blades and giving feedback will help you straighten out any weaknesses you may have.

Make sure you have fun.
 
Sweet, thanks for the reply. My forge is kinda half ass, 6 inch farm pipe, wrapped with ceramic wool on the inside, and a propane burner attached on the back. The reason I soaked so long is because I wasn't sure about the heat. But if you say a 5 minute soak past magnetic, I'll try that. The bars I have are .170 thick, from alpha knife supply. With a thin convex grind, they seem to be cutting good. I made one test piece from 80crv2 for me to carry, and try. So far it's doing ok. 15n20 is holding a better fine edge, cutting Manila rope, but I'll work on the 80crv heat treat a little more. I have a lot to learn. Hopefully I'll be able to afford an evenheat in the next couple months.
 
15n20 hands down. I have nothing bad to say about 80cvr but man do I love 15N20. You do not need to soak 15n20 beyond making sure it's an even color (dark orange for my eyes) and the closer you can keep it under 1500 the better. It does ok at higher temps but max hardness comes from the lower temps. It's big drawback is limited thickness, but becaus I have practically an unlimited supply of it I just forge weld the strips togather if I need somthing thicker. I have Heat treated a number of 80crv blades for customers and a few have come back to me saying thy where not impressed with the edge retention.

I find this is also the case with 5160. Not talking bad about either of them just stating my personal feelings. you can really push the hardness of 15n20 and still have a super tough blade. I infact just finished shooting a video for my YouTube channel that I hope to have posted tonight or tomarow about cutting a customers prototype out of 15n20 and heat treating it. This customer did some test knives out of 8670 and the cooks where not verry mpressed with edge retention So we are switching him to high hardness 15n20. This should bump the edge retention as well give good toughness for him.
 
So far I'm rather impressed with the edge retention of the knives I've made in 15n20. I'll continue testing both. But I'm thinking 15n20 will be the tougher steel. Hopefully more people weigh in. I could use the info. Thanks
 
I love 15n20, and have a little experience with 80crv2, but not enough to know how hard I can push it. As others have noted, 15n20 is very underrated, and the nickel lets us push the hardness beyond what other simple steels would allow. It's a very clean steel, consistent from batch to batch, and if you need anything tougher, I would ask if a knife is the best tool for the job you are damaging 15n20 with.
 
How would you guys compare the ability of 15N20 to take a super fine, stable edge compared to the "simple" steels that are known for that like 52100, W2, AEB-L, Hitachi white/blue, Takefu v-toku, etc?
 
It's very damn close. I don't know if I could tell a difference but my stones only go to 12,000 grit. Think of it as non stainless aeb-l. I don't even bother thermal cycling it. Very fine grained and easy to sharpen. It'll need touch ups 20% sooner than W2 or 52100 though. 15n20 at Rc62 holds its edge about the same as O1 at Rc60, for comparison.
 
I'm really liking the results I'm getting out of 15n20. Not so much out of 80crv2. My current test blade had some nice chunks torn out of it, just lightly chopping into a piece of aluminum. 15n20, I used a hammer and batonned into a piece of 1/4 inch mild steel, it tore some good size pieces out of it, but I would say that's extreme use, or destruction abuse. It still took over 50 degrees to snap the blade, and that's tempered at 300 degrees, which should be right around 62 rc. I'm wondering if I over soaked my 80crv blade. It shouldn't have taken that kind of damage, I wouldn't think.
 
Do you guys who have played with 15N20 a lot find that it has a "secondary toughness peak" like moly bearing L6? I was doing a little amateur research on L6 for use with CFV for damascus and found a chart that says that L6 is at is max toughness for our knifey purposes at like 57-58, but has a secondary peak at 61 where it is still like 80-85% at tough as at the lower hardness. The HT for that hardness is apparently right in the old 1500/400 wheelhouse for getting CFV to 61Rc, which, as some of you probably already know, makes for a pretty crazy wear resistant "simple" carbon/tool steel.
 
So last night, I normalized my 80crv blade as best I could, and re heat treated it, tempered 2 different times, first at 350, second at 425 for about 2 hours a piece. It's much harder, and much tougher now. I was able to cut a steel door hinge in half, with just minor deformation. Edge didn't tear out like before, just dented up. I also used a sledge and hammered the edge into solid concrete. I could actually just regrind the edge and keep using the knife. But I think I'll put it in the vice tonight and see what it takes to break it. This is some pretty tough steel. I think I'll be using both for now. I'm still happy with 15n20 too.
 
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