165OTOh my!

Codger_64

Codger_64

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In 1992, Imperial Schrade received an order from Smokey Mountain Knife works for 2,500 of their pattern #83, the venerable 165OT Woodsman which had been dropped as a listed production item after the 1991 year catalog. While I have been aware of this knife for quite some time, and added one to my collection with the help of a forum friend a while back, I had been calling these knives the165OTO, as in "Old Timer Orange", but now find that Schrade called them 165SM (at least initially) in their records. I am not sure where I came up with the OTO designation, but I may have mistakenly transposed it from the later orange handled Safe-T-Grip series of knives. If someone has a box marked either way, I'd sure like to see it, likewise a copy of the SMKW catalog showing this knife! It was common for Schrade to use a white stick-on label to alter the regular production boxes for these SMKW SFOs. They did so on the orange handled SMKW 15OT which I have. It's label is marked "SCHRADE ORANGE SH15DH".

Specs listed for the knife were:
Smokey Mountain Commemoratives
165SM
165OT pattern with blaze orange handles and special "DEERHUNTER" shield
Blading .135 thk. 1095 Carbon
Flat Grind w/ full sabre/ double header finish/ ACA Edge/ Common Swedge both sides
Tangstamp: SCHRADE over U.S.A. 165
Guard: Forged Brass Guard
Covers: Molded blaze orange Delrin w/ Old Timer Sawcut
Serialized: No
Shield: Large OT "DEERHUNTER" N.S.
Pin: N.S. Compression Rivets
Knife Finish: Fine Dressed Tang; Polished Guard
Packaging: Knife is sheathed and placed in polybag w/OT/Carbon Steel (Ivory) Brochure. Bulk packed 6 pcs./box
Sheath: Leather (std.)
Quantity: 5,000 pcs. (according to SMKW)
Shp: 7-21-92

As mentioned, this special hunter blaze orange sawcut delrin handled edition with a "DEERHUNTER" shield produced as a special factory order for Smokey Mountain Knife works who, I was told by Mr. Clemente, paired them with an orange delrin 152OT Sharpfinger in a "father and son" hunting set. It has a production tangstamp of SCHRADE over USA 165 and came with the standard three ply flat stitched sheath. Also as mentioned, a 15OT and a 158OT was likewise handled in orange delrin at that time. It is possible that a later second run of some of these orange handled knives may have been made circa 2001. It is interesting to note that many examples of the 165SM seen today, including the one in my collection, are more salmon or coral colored than blaze orange. Perhaps this is an artifact of material color variation, or colorfastness of the delrin over a long period of time (10+ years).

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Codger
Edit for spalling correctshuns
 
Michael,
Thanks for the update and correction. I haven't seen one yet, but I have been looking.

Dale
 
Codger,
A friend of mine has a variation of the orange handled 165OT,that you may not be aware of.
Now,this fella is a camoflage addict and hates Blaze Orange with a passion.
His knife is different in that he took a black Sharpie marker and obliterated the orange color - said it could be seen too easy.
I asked him why the heck he bought it in the first place and he said "the price was right". Turns out that he picked it up at a flea market for $10.
I told him that I'd have traded him a brown-handled one and given serious "boot".His reply was "the next one I find,we'll trade" !
Good to see you back !:D
Ron
 
hi again mr. codger smkw catalog fall/hunting 1992 cover knife is what your looking for add states in short discontinued by schrade in 1991 5000 made blaze orange sawcut delrin 95/8th overall, high carbo blade brass guard retail was 51.95 your cost 19.99. 0rder 165B. the picture on the cover says deerhunter on handle stamp is schrade above usa.165.i dont know abou the father son combo but in the same picture is a smaller blaze orange handled case blackhorn 8 inches overall hope this helps you.
 
Some people always wonder why i dont throw all this socalled junk out but hey thats just me.
 
hi, again, one more thing that i just found in my old smkw magazines that was mentioned in the earlier post father son set found a listing in the smkw "blowout 98 catalog" listing states in short,limited edition inlaid shield, limited production run of 3000, for both 32.99 for the deerslayer 19.99, and for the sharpfinger 14.99., hope this helps a little.Thanks.
 
It sure does. When I last spoke to Robert Clemente about these, he told me about the sets, but wasn't positive on the details. So it apears that the 165SM (and maybe the 158) was done after the 15DH and 152. I'm looking forward to receiving those catalog copies. I'll show them in this thread when I do.
 
]In 1997, Imperial Schrade received an order from Smokey Mountain Knife works for 1,500 of their pattern #78, the venerable 15OT Deerslayer which would be dropped as a listed production item after the 1997 year catalog. I added one to my collection recently NIB. I had also been calling these knives the 15OTO (as in "Old Timer Orange") but now find that Schrade called them 15SM (at least initially) in their records, and "SCHRADE ORANGE SC15DH" on the box label stuck over the printed flap text 15OT. As with the 165SM, I mistakenly transposed the "OTO" from the later orange handled Safe-T-Grip series of knives. I hope to find a copy of the SMKW catalog showing this knife. As mentioned above, it was common for Schrade to use a white stick-on label to alter the regular production boxes for these SMKW SFOs.

Specs listed for the knife were:
Smokey Mountain Knife Works
15SM
15OT pattern with blaze orange sawcut Delrin handles and special "Limited Edition" NS shield, Standard sheath with deer head emboss.
Blading .135 thk. 1095 Carbon
Flat Grind w/ ACA Edge/ no swedge/ Satin finish
Tangstamp: SCHRADE over U.S.A. 15OT
Covers: Old Timer Sawcut Delrin - Orange
Serialized: No
Shield: Large OT "Limited Edition" N.S. #14-00725
Pin: N.S. Compression Rivets
Knife Finish: Rough Buff
Packaging: Chipboard sleeve is placed over knife blade, set inside existing 15OT printed chipboard box with polybagged sheath, OT/Carbon (Ivory) brochure.
Sheath: Std. Leather w/ embossed deer head.
Quantity: 1,500 knives
Shp: 7-1-97

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It appears from the order dates that only the 15SM and the orange 152OT were paired in the set, the orange 165 being some years earlier, and without the deer head emboss on the sheath. I've found the order for the 152SM now, 3,000 pieces, also with the deer head embossed sheath, Limited Edition shield, and same delivery of 7/1/97. I've not found the 158 orange yet, but will post it if/when I do. It appears that there were one or more subsequent orders for the 152 pattern in orange, so I suspect one might find them also in hollow ground stainless with the last box, and maybe also with the blue striped box, making for two if not three variants of the 152SM orange.

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Codger
 
Here is the cover of the Fall 1992 he told us about.


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And here is the father/son set from the 1998 catalog.

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Codger
 
Oh, for a time machine so we could go back in time and stock up! :D :D :D

Dale
 
While it sounds like a great idea, it would screw with the time/space continuim, and violate the prime directive. Knives would dissapear from our collections and dealer's inventories, large amounts of cash would disappear from today's economy, and you can imagine what would happen when you tried to spend a new $20 from today in 1987! Besides, I only have the one Time Machine, and it is not for loan or hire! :D

Codger
 
Just one ride Codger. Pretty Pleeeeesssse.
Just I can fill in the holes in my collection. :D :D :D :D
 
Ahhh yes, back to reality for a moment. Folks, I've always told you that no research is 100% complete as presented here. Rough drafts with omissions and errors, unfortunately, are an every day occurance. But fortunately, each day brings a little bit more to light. FOr instance the quandry of 165OTO/SM, 15OTO/SM, 152OTO/SM. Whenever there was not a specific alphanumeric tangstamp designating and "official" name of a pattern variant, we are left at the mercy of dealer's descriptions, stickers applied over stock pattern names on boxes by....manufacturer/distributor/dealer? Today's rooting around in the piles unearthed some identifiers I think we can hang our hats on. The 152SM was a internal catalog number for the orange handled Sharpfingers ordered by Smoky, but the name given to the contents of the box was.....152OTO. Regardless of labels, and SMKW's ads giving it their number SC152OH. Likewise, the 15SM was an internal catalog number, and the knife is described as a 15OTO, though SMKW ads show #SC15OH (and my box sticker is SC15OH, not DH as I had thought). The 165SM Orange handled 165OT pattern with a "Deerhunter" shield, is only seen so far with that number internally, and the SC165B number in the Smoky catalog. And then there is the 165BSM, and the 165BLSM seen here.

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Codger
 
hi, been busy for awhile i hoped you enjoyed at least a little those copies, they were a not copied like i wanted but the machine was stuck with that length and i couldnt change it. boy those machines love dimes,anyway if your looking for anything else that might be in these catalogs for referance and i can find it ill sure try to help.one thing more nd, i dont think i included in those pics. thanks
 
Yes, and again tthman, thanks! I'll likely eventually find opportunity to show some of the other copies you sent as well. You can see how much information can be gleaned from them.

Codger
 
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