1849 rifleman's knife

D

dingy

Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
2,016
Hi you all.
1849 rifleman knife is really cool from pics, has anyone holds it so far ?
i really want to buy one , and who knows the shape of transition of blade and tang ?
is there a sharp corner (right angle) on transtion under the brass guard ?

thanks.
 
This came up in coldsteelforums a little while back. Here's the link. http://coldsteelforums.com/adviceexperience-with-the-1849-Riflemans-Knife-m227639.aspx The consensus was that it was a real good looking knife. I don't think anyone would know the tang shape or if it's radiused tang, unless he decided to re-do the handle. It may or may not show up on an x-ray because of the brass guard.

If you have the Cold Steel 1917 Frontier Bowie, you might be able to take off the handle scales. That's also made by Windlass Steelcrafts for Cold Steel. So if that one has a radiused tang, then you could assume that the 1849 Rifleman knife has a similar radius.
 
GrReaper said:
This came up in coldsteelforums a little while back. Here's the link. http://coldsteelforums.com/adviceexperience-with-the-1849-Riflemans-Knife-m227639.aspx The consensus was that it was a real good looking knife. I don't think anyone would know the tang shape or if it's radiused tang, unless he decided to re-do the handle. It may or may not show up on an x-ray because of the brass guard.

If you have the Cold Steel 1917 Frontier Bowie, you might be able to take off the handle scales. That's also made by Windlass Steelcrafts for Cold Steel. So if that one has a radiused tang, then you could assume that the 1849 Rifleman knife has a similar radius.
Click to expand...
Late to the party but a couple of points. It was late 2016 when I posted to this section and decried the 1917 fronteir knife as pure fantasy (and still feel that way). As one knife has a historical basis and the other not so, speculating the tangs have the same profile shows a lack of understanding of what the two represent.

The 1849 riflemans knives were originally made in 1849, it's that simple. Cold Steel has simply picked up the ball to run with it, as reproductions of the 1849 have been around for decades. The Dahlgren bayonet as well (I'm sure CS could market some). Both of these historic knives still turn up and reproduced (due to their rarity) for decades.

The CS 1849 seems to be listed and imported with little input rather than "ya, we can sell those". I can hope that they expand interest in historic blades and that Lynn can manage not to misrepresent as many as he has in the past.

There are enough faults in the current production offerings of the 1849 that they will not be too easily faked as original but the unwary can easily be misled. Rock Island auctions sold an original at $10,925. Even original Dahlgrens rarely reach that five figure stratosphere.
https://www.rockislandauction.com/d...ames-us-model-1849-us-mounted-riflemans-knife

If I can now pump up another scarcity for CS, it would be getting them to do a Roby Bowie reproduction ;)

Robowie.jpg Roby cdv.jpeg

Of course, he would need the producers to come up with an original. Scarcer than either the Ames Dalhgren or Ames 1849.

There are other historic US specific patterns that would do well with the CS label, as many of the swords are already produced in India. I guess it works out to interest and speculation. Labeling fresh stock of the 1849 a no brainer, as already a production item they can add to their importing.

Cheers

GC glad they have been re-released on the market
 
horseclover said:
Late to the party but a couple of points. It was late 2016 when I posted to this section and decried the 1917 fronteir knife as pure fantasy (and still feel that way). As one knife has a historical basis and the other not so, speculating the tangs have the same profile shows a lack of understanding of what the two represent.

The 1849 riflemans knives were originally made in 1849, it's that simple. Cold Steel has simply picked up the ball to run with it, as reproductions of the 1849 have been around for decades.
Click to expand...
The 1917 Frontier feels very heavy. Definitely not a good choice for a fighting knife. As a hunting knife or for chopping, there are various accounts of it being put to good use. Obviously, your mileage may vary. I tend to agree with you that it's pure fantasy. By that I mean that I use mine strictly as a wall hanger.

But I have to disagree with your point about the tangs. Even though it's a reproduction, I don't think Cold Steel would purposefully copy the tang shape of the original. CS seems to do whatever it wants with the tangs in its knives; as far as the tangs, CS doesn't seem to care a fig about historical authenticity. Nor should they. Because if it's faithful to the original, I'm sure it would have a corner-cut tang, as radius-ed tangs seem to be a fairly modern development. (Radius cutting the tang should make it tougher and more impact resistant.) Do you have any info that CS made the 1849 an exact reproduction, including the tang shape?
 
GrReaper said:
Do you have any info that CS made the 1849 an exact reproduction, including the tang shape?
Click to expand...

The reproductions made in India were copied directly from an original. Reproductions of the 1849 have been made for decades. Cold Steel importing a reproduction of the 1849 is using that same old pattern form an original from whatever source is supplying them.

I would point out again that Windlass is not a single forge or shop. They are Windlass Steelcrafts sourcing shops across India and Pakistan. Is CS sourcing these direct from Windlass? I don't know but I know CS is not the only company that is or has sold the 1849 reproductions.

Search "ames riflemans knife" on ebay and note the good, bad and ugly. The good, the correct period scabbard shape/fittings. The bad, aged and "fakes". The ugly, rough approximations. The good and bad, all from the pattern from an original that has been reproduced for decades.

The CS 1917 Frontier was not based on the decades old reproduction Ames 1849 Riflemans knives, hence the tangs are not going to be the same. Can you make CS 1917 Frontier grips fit the 1849? Why bother? The 1849 has a narrower profile, so sure. Will the holes line up? Probably not. Are the screws bigger in diameter than the brass pins in the 1849? Yes. Can you strip the 1849 and add whatever you want to? Yes.

The old reproductions do turn up aged and sell to fool. Cold Steel has forgone having Ames marks added and that's a great thing. Aside from the grind being wrong, the pins are wrong, the guard is wrong and the lanyard solid brass tube is wrong. The current CS reproduction is coming with the same type of scabbard and fittings as the fantasy 1917, so that will be another tell. The older reproductions and those coming new from other sources will show much the same faults, with the more correct scabbard having staples instead of rivets on the scabbard fittings.

Cheers

GC

Edit, I could add other physical and visual differences between the CS and others (Dixe GW for instance sells a ringer). The CS is actually doing a good thing with eliminating marks and some subtle contours here and there. Overall though, still that same old lump of steel :) Might be better steel.
 
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I guess I am reading the whole radius tang business the wrong way. Sorry. We know it's not a cable, right? :D
GC
 
GrReaper said:
This came up in coldsteelforums a little while back. Here's the link. http://coldsteelforums.com/adviceexperience-with-the-1849-Riflemans-Knife-m227639.aspx The consensus was that it was a real good looking knife. I don't think anyone would know the tang shape or if it's radiused tang, unless he decided to re-do the handle. It may or may not show up on an x-ray because of the brass guard.

If you have the Cold Steel 1917 Frontier Bowie, you might be able to take off the handle scales. That's also made by Windlass Steelcrafts for Cold Steel. So if that one has a radiused tang, then you could assume that the 1849 Rifleman knife has a similar radius.
Click to expand...
So these knives are subbed out from Cold Steel? I just ordered the Rifleman's knife just a minute ago while I was doing research for their Spetsnaz shovels, lol.
 
Ray1911 said:
So these knives are subbed out from Cold Steel? I just ordered the Rifleman's knife just a minute ago while I was doing research for their Spetsnaz shovels, lol.
Click to expand...
All Cold Steel products are subbed out.
 
I received my 1849 last week and must say that I'm pleasantly surprised at what I got for a 100 bucks. Not bad, the sheath and frog seem pretty sturdy. Haven't tested the edge but it doesn't feel very sharp. Probably a good working edge.
 
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