1897 Vic Officer's Knife

U

user24

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Nov 10, 2006
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I have a knife that looks exactly like the original 1897 Officer's Knife. as pictured here - from the tool shape right down to the rivet positions and the 'keyring' shape etc.

Unfortunately I don't have any pics yet (but I'll take some when I go back home at Xmas). AFAIK, it does not say victorinox (or indeed anything) anywhere on it (but I could be wrong - I haven't cleaned it up), and the 'shield' icon is different (more rounded) from either Wenger or Victorinox's current design.
The scales are made of some kind of odd synthetic material that I can't identify; it's quite a bendy material that is coming away from the 'body' of the knife.
The knife is in very poor condition and I almost didn't buy it but my partner convinced me that hey it was only £2 (~$4) so why not?

So, what I'm really asking is:
1) how do I tell if it's genuine?
2) if anyone has good pictures please post so I can compare
3) are there any telltale signs I should look for?
4) how long were they in production?

I don't have the knife with me ATM but I'll try to answer any questions.

many thanks.

EDIT: actually, I think the main blade has something stamped lengthways into it, but I think it's initials or a name or something non-original. I can't fully remember.

EDIT2:
now have pictures
 
I had an old Wenger with orange handles made of similar stuff... like hard rubber material............
but it was damaged and had started to crumble, so I gave it away.

I do not know what it was, it seemed like rubber that had been hardened somehow, maybe early Bakelite type stuff...???? who knows ?
 
user24 said:
I have a knife that looks exactly like the original 1897 Officer's Knife. as pictured here - from the tool shape right down to the rivet positions and the 'keyring' shape etc.

it does not say victorinox (or indeed anything) anywhere on it (but I could be wrong - I haven't cleaned it up), and the 'shield' icon is different (more rounded) from either Wenger or Victorinox's current design.
The scales are made of some kind of odd synthetic material that I can't identify; it's quite a bendy material that is coming away from the 'body' of the knife.
Click to expand...

Contrary to what one might think -
IF the knife was marked "Victorinox" anywhere in any way -
it would be a FAKE.......

Why? Because they did NOT adopt that name until sometime after 1923 when they started to use stainless steel "inox" - combining the then trade name Victoria with Inox.

At that time the company was "Elsener Schwyz"

That first Officer's knife pattern was produced between 1897 to 1909 (it was patented June/12/1897) - so only Elsener Schwyz (Victorinox) made it -
remember the Officer's knife was merely their designation it was never an official Swiss military issue.

Some images -

OfficerTline_S.jpg

according to this timeline the handle material was said to be "fibre".

Earlier trademarks -
TradeMtline.jpg


OfficerPage.jpg


--
Vincent
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2006
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2005
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2004
http://clik.to/UnknownVincent
 
Casares: yeah, it could be some form of hard rubber... unsure

UnknownVT: wow, that is incredibly useful - thankyou!
That dates mine to at earliest 1909 - it has the shield logo, and no later than 1937 - it has the old style can opener and a blade rather than a screwdriver, and I don't think it has celluloid scales.

All I have to do now it determine whether it's stainless steel or not - any ideas how?

I mentioned that it may have had something stamped into the main blade, and the lettering of "Elsener Schwyz" in the 'trademarks' scan I think looks similar, but I can't be at all sure. Does anyone know if the blades were stamped?

Interestingly, the knife definately belongs to one of the top three images (tool shape, visible rivets, scale material etc), but it has the 'keyring' featured in the 1961 knife. The image of the Officer's Knife that I linked above does have this keyring, but the images in the scan don't seem to.

It doesn't look like the shield logo changed between the 1909 and 1968 knives, but mine is definately different to the modern versions; I wonder if it changed after 1968, or if I just can't make it out on the pictures?

thanks muchly,
-h.

EDIT 1:
PS: what book are those scans from?
EDIT 2:
not that I'd consider selling it (well...), but I don't suppose there any value in it? I haven't seen any on ebay/online anywhere.
 
You know, Victorinox ought to re-release that knife as a collector's edition. Hell, I'd buy one. :-)
 
not a bad idea actually- It's got pretty much what I consider the essential tools.
It's quite interesting that the 1897 model really has stood the test of time; the vic Spartan is almost identical in terms of tools.
 
user24 said:
just a little update: from the victorinox website, the original handle material is called "fibrox", apparently.
Click to expand...

That is VERY strange as the current modern plastic material used on the Victorinox kitchen and butcher's cutlery is also called Fibrox.....

For example -

Chef's knife - style # 88520 (link)
Product details
8 inch blade
2 inch blade width at handle
Fibrox handle

--
Vincent
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2006
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2005
http://clik.to/UnknownVT2004
http://clik.to/UnknownVincent
 
Added pictures - see original post.

The shield is different, the rivets are larger, but the tools (as far as I can see) are identical. I'm thinking that the knife could have been repaired, hence the massive rivets (they're in the right place). The shield is odd. The cross is not a swiss cross, so perhaps the knife is a contemporary rip-off? Or the shield was different/replaced/???
 
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