1911 pimping question

fishface5

fishface5

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Feb 3, 2001
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I have a basic SA 1911 I got and pimped out a bit 15 years ago. It's kind of a rattletrap now, not tight at all, so I have been looking into getting a new 1911. Thinking about RIA, Charles Daly, re-working a Norinco, etc.

Today I went to the gun store / range to check out the options (Wades in Bellevue, a great place if you're in Western Washington). Held an RIA and then a Taurus - the Taurus felt a lot better somehow, also heavier which I believe is due to being forged slide/frame rather than cast? The clerks said both were ok guns but really pushed the Kimbers, starting at near $1000.

So I crossed over to the range to compare some rental guns with my old faithful - they have a dozen or so 1911 rentals alone! - and low and behold, the only two guns that I shot better than my old SA were a Kimber Gold National Match ($1400 new) and a custom Nighthawk ($3000 new). Now those are some fine guns - :eek::eek::eek: - but I can't justify that kind of cashish, especially on a fun-gun (the Kahr is for carry, not the 1911).

Does anyone have tips for accurizing? One of the gun range/store clerks is a 1911 fan and he stripped it and said everything looked to be in good shape, the slide-frame fit is just a bit wiggly. I have the stock SA barrel in there, and he suggested replacing that as one option. But I have one of those bushing-within-a-bushing set-ups that precisely fits the current barrel to get the most out of it, so I don't want to mess with that unless it will really show some big benefit. Other than a match barrel (hopefully finding one with the same outside diameter of my current one so I can use the same bushing system), are there any 1911 fiends here with ideas?

Thoughts much appreciated!
 
A 1911 is not a gun you can futz around with on the kitchen table, swapping out barrels and such as needed. Find yourself a real gunsmith, not a gun store clerk, and see what he says.
 
Well I've already read enough - and done enough - to know that's not entirely true. Just getting the right barrel bushing for mine more than a decade ago helped considerably. I'm hoping some people have experience to share?
 
Keep the gun you've got. I don't know about its current configuration, but 1911 accuracy depends on just a couple of things.

1. Barrel/bushing fit-this is first an foremost, a good gunsmith with "old school" knowledge can weld up and fit the lugs to the slide, and then fit a SOLID bushing. Find a smith that can do that and save a lot of $ on a new barrel.

2. Trigger-long, medium, or short have one installed that fits you and set to be creep free and crisp. Weight is not as much an issue as people make it, a 4.5-5 lb. trigger will feel perfect so long as it breaks like the preverbial glass rod.

3. Sights, fixed or adjustable, so long as you can see 'um without straining!

Of course the gun store dude wants to sell you something, but think about it from a practical perspective. What were the differences between the high end guns and yours? Make those changes to the gun you already have and presto! It may not be as pretty or be stamped with a big name, but it'll hang with 'em on paper, and isn't that all that matters?

BTW, slide/frame fit is really a non issue, some builders actually recommend a little slop in that area for reliability's sake. Also, the BULL weighed more than the ROCK because of extra do-dads, full length guide rod, ambi safety, sights, etc.
 
Really really really check out the credentials and references of the gunsmith before you let them work on your 1911. Find one who specializes in the 1911.
 
If you are carrying it then only add what is necessary !! Keep it simple and not too tight .I did my own work [after going to gunsmithing school ] .It's been used for carry, target and hunting.
 
Thanks for the replies - I've been doing some research on the net and thought I'd share what I've found so far. Unless otherwise noted all can be done by a careful hobbyist, I wonder if people have experience with these mods? I've done a lot of them before but would be interested to hear from others.

ONE INTERESTING NOTE - I found an article where a smith made a barrel-testing device and found that barrels alone did not make a huge accuracy difference - one that match shooters might notice but not hobbyists.

>>FOR ACCURACY<<

TRIGGER. may require work on the disconnector or trigger bar to fit (stone the contact points between the trigger transfer bar and the disconnector).

BARREL LINK AND PIN - "A factory barrel can be really improved by fitting a NM bushing , a new .278 link and a new link pin."

BARREL BUSHING - A key component, can take very careful measurements of the slide ID and the barrel OD; then order a custom barrel bushing.

SIGHTS - go to a local smith to fit these!


>>FOR RELIABILITY<<

PINS/SPRINGS - Replace all (Ed Brown kit includes a new mag catch spring and key, plunger spring and mainspring - usually replace the 22-pound mainspring with an 18-pounder.)

EXTRACTOR - replace only if current extractor is worn or exhibiting problems

RECOIL SPRING - a Wolff 18 1/2 pound variable power recoil spring will allow use of a wide range of ammo reliably.

FIRING PIN STOP - get an oversized, EGW has one about five one-thousandths oversized on the pin and yields a tighter lockup between the link, frame and barrel. It takes some fitting.

GOOD LUBE



>>MISC REPLACEMENTS<<

DISCONNECTOR AND SEAR - can polish for better action IF you are cautious/experienced, otherwise have a pro do it

HAMMERS - fitting the sear to the hammer can be tricky, research on the net about how to do that.

GRIP SAFETY - can use drop-in or radius frame. I use the Wilson drop-in extended beavertail. The Norinco frame metal is very hard and will destroy several carbide cutters if you try to radius the frame so the drop-in is the best compromise.

THUMB SAFETY - To install it may need 2-3 file strokes to get a good fit.

SEAR SPRING - don't need to mess with this unless you know what you're doing

MAINSPRING HOUSING - Replace as desired, but use a metal one.

A titanium firing pin is nice. + reduced-power Wolff firing pin spring (it comes with the recoil spring).

GUIDE ROD - personal preference
 
Coupe of comments about 1911s:
1. Shoot a new one at least 500 rounds before even thinking about customizing and/or accurizing. Any new 1911 will smooth out a lot with use. I have close to 60 years working with 1911s and I've had to salvage many a kitchen table job. Don't do it unless you really know what you're doing! Work on adapting to your pistol rather than adding after market junk to try and make it adapt to you.
2. Are you a good enough pistol shot to make customizing/accurizing worth the effort and cost? If the work only tightens the group an inch or two at 25 yards and you can't shoot a tight group to begin with, don't blow money/time for 'feel good' or bragging rights. Most gunfights are at 15 feet or less and just about any 1911 will shoot a three inch group at that range.
 
Find a gunsmith who works on bullseye guns and he can tighten up a spring-field properly and make sure the gun is in spec.Something even new guns may not be.
I'd change out your springs,extractor and ejector while you're at it.
A good gunsmith is the way to go.He'll tell you what you need.
 
How accurate is your current pistol? From a rest? Until you know this, and can shoot better than it can, everything else is a waste of time and money. Find somebody with a Ransom Rest and test your pistol. Then you'll know where to start.
 
Mod the one you have, theres nothing wrong with it.
 
well I ordered a new pin and spring set and an oversized EGW firing-pin stop; I'll put these in and report back on whether there is any noticeable change in accuracy as a result. I wouldn't think so but the barrel link and pin may be slightly worn after 15 years. The Briley spherical bushing seems to still be vault-tight. Thanks for the tip on the accu-rails, I'll check into those as a next step.

Again, what brought this question on was comparing my old battlehorse to a number of other newer 1911s, and finding that I shot it as well or better than many (AO, S&W, SIG, Kimber Classic!!) but that I was significantly more accurate with 2 guns: the Nighthawk and Kimber National Match Gold. So that's the frame of reference I'm working from.

Man, those 2 guns were sweet . . . . . I have to say that the guys at Wades were really nice and the clerk spent a lot of time with me even after it became clear I wasn't going to be buying anything. Also, if anyone is looking for a deal on a Kimber Classic 2 they have one there that was returned unfired, and so they are selling it for $699 instead of $899. But thanks for the forum tip, loads of good info there!
 
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A simple way to check for link pin/lug fit is to unload the weapon, cock the hammer, make sure the safety is OFF and press on the barrel hood. Movement, and amount of movement indicates slop in those areas.
 
I've found replacing the recoil spring with a heavy Wolf spring tightens up a lot of "loose" guns. The old springs are just worn out.

The only major accuracy increase you'll see is if you get a fitted barrel. These guys can do that for you, but they charge a lot.

http://www.barsto.com/

The various barrel link mods are half hearted attempts at a fitted barrel. Here's a clever one from Wilson Combat that's a lot cheaper than a full fitted barrel.

https://www.wilsoncombat.com/a_guide_rods_gg.asp



The reason you may not see an accuracy increase is probably due to your shooting ability. My gun shoots a lot tighter than I can hold and it's stock (and 20 years old).

Practice, practice, practice. ;)

Check out Jerry Kuhnhausen's books for a lot of good info.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productnumber=199119

Wilson Combat also has some good books and DVDs. The Combat Auto by Bill Wilson goes into a lot of detail on all the various mods you can do to a 1911. The original book was called The Combat 45 Auto, but so many people got into exotic 9mm variations they changed the name when they updated the book.

http://www.wilsoncombat.com/index_books_dvd.htm
 
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The 1911 is actually a very simple design to work on. However, it is also very easy to mess one up...

Most of them don't get enough rounds fired through them to have parts that are worn out.

I have lost count of how many 1911's I have owned, but the first thing I do when I get a used one, is completely disassemble it, clean it, and replace all the springs. I always use good magazines too.
Changing the springs and mags will usually eliminate the potential for most feeding or reliability problems.

If you are going to have any parts changed in your pistol that require fitting, it is best to have someone that is good do it for you. Unless you don't mind going through the learning curve, which is the only way we learn how to work on them.

I had a Colt U.S ARMY 1911 that was made in 1918. I did my normal routine after I got it, and it was 100% reliable. I only used ball ammo in though..
I trusted it enough to carry it. It had a little bit of 1911 rattle, but would still shoot "minute of bad guy" at 25 yards.
For a pistol I'm going to carry, I will give up a little accuracy for reliability
 
Replacing the recoil spring is a good idea, but it might be something as simple as trying a different brand of ammo or new bullet weight.

I shot my new AR with Remington and it was doing 2" groups at 40 yds. Switching to Federal cut that to about 3/4" without even trying.
 
well I switched out out the springs and pins, and installed an oversized firing-pin stop, and DID see a reduction in group size! Not tremendous but noticeable. I think it's mostly due to replacing the worn springs so it's a bit crisper. Although I also seem to have somehow shortened the trigger-pull, can't figure out how that happened, I'll strip it down & re-check it b/c now double-taps are too easy to do by accident.

Of note is that the oversized firing-pin stop (which does take some fitting but is easily done slowly & carefully with a fine file and 1000-grit paper, thanks 1911 forums!) does in fact reduce recoil - the gun is now sharper and barkier in recoil but quicker back on target. Some of the sharpness of the recoil may be due to the fact that I had a shock-buff in there and it was worn out, so I removed it but didn't have a replacement. I'll get one and see what effect that has.

I also found out that I had already installed one of the Wilson guide-rod+barrel-link systems. Those do lock the chamber-end of the barrel into the slide very firmly. That plus the Briley spherical bushing seem to have made the most difference, when comparing it to a new stock SA model.

I was using the same ammo in all guns (S&B 230gr FMJ), and again the same this afternoon when I re-tested mine with the new springs/pins/OSFPS. My testing was to compare several guns using the same ammo, given my own shooting skills (or lack thereof). My best group at 21 feet went into a thumb-sized area just in and below the bullseye. ("I'm a bad shot, but at least I'm a shot.") That's as well as I could do with the premium guns last week. Now I just need to be able to duplicate that grouping at 75 feet! That's where the practice comes in. . . . . . Also replacing the extremely basic GI sights.
 
Good to see its coming along, when I shot comp I learned more about 1911's than I ever wanted to know and didn't even shoot one!

They have limitless upgrade possibilities and truthfully its hard to find a better shooting pistol. For sights go with a fixed 3 dot sight, you really don't want to mess with adjustable.
 
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