19c27 Sandvik?

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mdoyle

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Feb 10, 2006
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Hi guys,
Could someone who has used it, please offer your opinions on 19c27 Sandvik steel. I am considering ordering a bar from Admiral. How does it compare to the CPM 154 I have been using? Obviously @ $66 for a 6' bar vs $113 for the same size bar, it compares very well in price, but obviously there are other considerations.....
Thank you,
Matt Doyle
 
I've been wondering the same thing myself.
 
It has good potential hardness like CPM-154, it's easy to take it to 62-63 Rc, though of course you can take it lower. The corrosion resistance isn't as good as many other steels. Based on the carbide volume and micrographs the toughness should be better than CPM-154 but the wear resistance is less. My father has used a substantial amount of it in damascus. It is extremely easy to sharpen.

You can get more information on Sandvik's hardening guide.
 
Edge retention I'm unsure of, still in the testing phase. As for as looks go the cpm wins hands down. The 19c27 was very grainy while the cpm showed no grain (very clean). Now the 13c26 I've been using in kitchen knives for a while and is very clean and holds an edge for quite a while.
 
Don't know about 19C27. But I regularly use 12C27 & 13C26. 13C26 only comes in .100 & .130 thicknesses, so I mostly use 12C27. I made a test blade from .197 x 2 x 15 piece of 12C27. 10" blade with a 5" handle. Full flat grind to .015. Hardened @ 1975 for 20 min. plate quenched then tempered 2 hrs. @ 325. Put a convex edge on it. It will chop a pine 2x4 into 2x and still shave with no visible damage to the edge. It is very clean and easy to grind/finish. I really like it. I have heard 12C27 called stainless 5160 & 13C26 called stainless 52100. I don't know how true that is, I just know what my knives will do. Which is 1. take a nice edge fairly easily 2. hold an edge very well 3. show decent toughness. How do I know about the toughness? I have not tried a 90 degree bend test but while chopping a 2x4 I torqued the blade and bent the edge. So I put it in a vise edge up and bent the edge back with vise grips. The only visible damage is a few scratches from the vise grips. She still cuts/chops very well. I took a chance and tried it mainly because of price and availability and I'm glad I did.
 
It may be worth noting that Sandvik doesn't recommend 19c27 for general knife use in their literature, especially their downloadable doc on heat treatment. They think the cabide structure is too coarse for a fine edge and only recommend it where edge hardness is more important than sharpness.

Of course, what do they know? :)
 
AUS8, D2, and 440C are not quite suitable by Sandvik's standards of carbide size either.
 
darrin sanders said:
while chopping a 2x4 I torqued the blade and bent the edge. So I put it in a vise edge up and bent the edge back with vise grips....
Click to expand...

I know this is going to come out wrong but I swear it's an honest question. Isn't that kind of like a failed brass rod test - a la extreme?

Rob!
 
Thanks guys,
I have used the 13C26 on smaller, caper style knives, and been quite pleased with it. But, as was mentioned, it only comes in thicknesses up to .130. The knives I had planned for the 19C27 are in the 10" range and I like a bit more meat than .130 @ that length. Also was looking for a little more Carbon than the 12C27 has. The 12C27 has .60 Carbon while the 19C27 offers .95 Carbon, and I was concerned more with edge retention than with toughness. I hate to buy a 6' bar of something I may not be pleased with....
Matt
 
If you want a really detailed discussion of carbon in stainless steel read the appendix to Verhoeven's Metallurgy of Steel for Blacksmiths, etc. He discusses in great (and confusing to me) detail why he thinks that AEB-L (aka 13c26) is a better knife steel than 440C.

I can't claim to understand his explanation enough to either agree or disagree but learn something every time I try to read it.
 
Hey Rob, no harm done. Maybe I didn't explain as clearly as I should have. There was no rolling or any other damage to the edge itself. Try to imagine a flex test with only 3/4" - 1" of the blade in a vise. The blade was bent lengthwise, kinda like looking down the edge from spine to tip and seeing a little S-curve. So I put it in the vise and torqued it back the other way to straighten it. To me it seems to show that the blade is flexible enough to bend instead of chip out, but still hard enough to hold an edge. This was my first time to try the 2x4 chop test and I learned not to torque the blade sideways if it happens to stick in the 2x4. I thought that was the object, to make a tough, flexible blade that will still hold an edge. Maybe an ABS MS or two (or anyone else) might chime in and set a rookie straight. I am always striving to make my knives better so any tips or criticism are welcome, and will not offend me. Thanks.
 
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