1st batch of questions

K

kingfisher studio

Joined
Feb 21, 2005
Messages
58
ok here goes!
When forging a blade, is there an advantage to using thicker stock and pounding the whole thing into shape, or just starting with say 1/8" stock and basically just shaping and hammering bevels on?
Which leads me to my next, How much time should it take to forge a blade?
I need a goal to shoot for.
Does the magnet idea for quenching, work on all the blade steels?
And an elementary one.
I have about a 4 1/2 inch (hidden) tang. How the heck do I drill an 1/8'' hole that deep. The only bits I ever see are about 2 " long.
Im sure a lot of this has been covered and I apologize if its redundant.
More to come
Thanks
Pat
 
Personally I would not hammer on material 1/8" thick. If you do it won't take long to get the shape. The edge should not be much less than 1/16" when quenching as it may warp when being quenched. Also, if you hammer a 1/8" thick blade and try to stop at 1/16" the likelyhood of having hammermarks deeper than 1/16" is high. Then you are having to deal with the dents.

I takes me about 15 to 20 minutes to hammer a blade that size out. But some of the makers don't hammer the blade as close to the final shape as others do. I try to get the shape very close. I even use a guillotine to help with tapered tangs.

You won't like this answer but it depends on the steel. Most steels like 5160 and other spring steels can be hardened by heating them until nonmagnetic and then quinched in oil. (the oil should be heated to 160 f to about 180 f) The steel is now hardened and needs to be tempered. For temporing, most of the steels will need to be heated to around 400 f give or take 15 to 20
degrees.

As for the 1/8" hole in the handle, it should be slightly larger than the tang to make assembly easier. I don't know about where to get longer drill bits.
 
I bought one of these.If I remember right it was 9 inches long works well. I had to cut about 2 inches off so it would fit in my bench top drill press.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...tical=TOOL&pid=00966058000&tab=des#tablinkfit
 
Pat,
Careful planning and you can use the shorter 3" and 4" bits to drill your handle holes. Just come from both ends. Will allow you to fit a curved handle design. Just make sure they meet in the middle. Drill them slightly undersize of the actual tang then burn the tang through. You'll get a much tighter fit that requires very little glue. Much easier than trying to align a sloppy fit. To long a bit has a tendency to wander off center easily. I prefer the pilot pointed wood bits as they tend not to wander off center as much at lower speeds.
Sounds like you need to do more research on the basic dynamics of forging forces. Then practice a lot on "junk" steel of varying thicknesses to actually see what happens. A good quick visual/physical exercize is to use kid's modeling clay in the dimensions of the steel you wnat to try. It will respond to the same pressure applications as the steel and you can see how the steel will respond to different forging applications. If you start with 1/8" stock you will probably be very discouraged. No room for error.
All of the questions you have asked have been answered many times over on this and other forums. Searching the archives will provide you with plenty of excellent information.
I strongly suggest you do a lot of research prior to actually starting to forge.
Visit a local bladesmith and get some hands on instruction. Pay the gentleman for his time and materials if he'll let you, it's only fair.
Where you located? Check around there's a bladesmith in almost every town.
Good luck.
Carpe Ferrum!
Carl Rex
 
Hi Carl
Thanks for the post. I am planning to burn on the grip(just to see how it works). Im not planning on any brass on the back of the knife, so what would I do with the holes through the back end.
As to my research, Ive been reading every spare moment. I've read a book written by a stock removal guy, and one by a forge guy. They seem to contradict each other in several places. And both will say "do this, dont do that" but dont really tell you why.
I run an art gallery, and have been looking for a local Knife maker, and a decent blacksmith for 2 1/2 yrs now.( one of the myriad reasons I've gotten into it)no luck.I met one stock removal guy who is very hesitant to share information, as he got burned somehow by a former apprentice.
As to the archives, I dont have a lot of time on my hands right now, And the best way to get an answer is to ask a question;-) The more answers I get the less time I spend making mistakes.
I'm self taught in my current field, and I lost all fear of asking questions a long time ago!
Thanks again
Pat
 
Pat,
Starting with thicker stock is what I would recommend. Start with at least 3/16. There are several reasons. One is in the beginning your hammerblows wont be all that accurate and you may have to fix it by grinding. The second is your bevels will be sharper. Stick with the thicker stuff until you get the hang of things, then try a thin piece. As for the drills, try a wood bit, they are generally long enough and can be used with most materials if you take you time.
Del
 
Pat,
It's a rare knifemaker that won't take a little time to help a beginner who really wants to learn. It is, however, very difficult for anyone to grasp and learn the many facets involved in knifemaking in a couple of short visits. I really have no way of knowing what you already know and what you have done up to this point. Based soley on the questions you asked in this thread, it appears that you are looking for the quick and easy way to learn how to make a knife.
The reason I suggested research is that the questions you ask can be answered in many different ways and all of them be right. They are very general and indicate a lack of planning out what you intend to accomplish.
Please do not take this the wrong way, I don't wish to insult you or dissuade you from your desires. I have taught a lot of folks to forge blades and complete their first knife. Some will continue to make knives and improve their skills, others will not make a second one. There's a lot of technique and skill to learn in order to produce a servicable, useful knife start to finish.
As far as hiding the hole in the butt of the handle. Drill out to a suitable size and plug with a contrasting wood or other material.
Carl Rex
 
agghumi said:
I bought one of these.If I remember right it was 9 inches long works well. I had to cut about 2 inches off so it would fit in my bench top drill press.
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/prod...tical=TOOL&pid=00966058000&tab=des#tablinkfit
Click to expand...


I just bought a 12" long 3/16" drill bit at Home Depot for this same thing. I cut it, I only needed it to be 7" long for the handle of a stub or rabbited tang.

If drilling all the way through, as mentioned, you don't need a long drill bit, you can drill from both ends.

I believe it was Bob Warner, I could be wrong, who put up how to drill a hole this way. The nut is soldered on to the piece of flat stock.


picture.JPG


Make sure the point of the screw or all-thread is aligned with your drill bit.
I find the center point on each end and "dimple" each end. One dimple is for the point on the all thread, the other for the drillbit. Drill all the way until your bit bottoms out, turn the piece over and drill from the opposite end. You now have hole all the way through.

I will drill three holes for a tang, I just leave it the "bottom end" in the dimple and then I have a tapered slot in the end.

Craig
 
birdog4 said:
Pat, whereabouts in w Pa are you located?
I'm in s Armstrong county. bruce
Click to expand...
Hi Bruce
I'm in mercer County, about half way between Pittsburgh and Erie.
I should know where Armstrong Co. is but it escapes me at the moment.
 
Thanks to everyone who responded to my basic questions.
Im really not interested in the "quick easy way " to do this. The only thing I want quickly is information. I run 2 businesses and have an 18 month old daughter. Ireally want to do this the right way but dont have the luxury of endless reading and experimentation. Nor do I have any desire to re-invent the wheel so to speak.
Thanks again to everyone
Pat
 
birdog4 said:
20 miles south of Kittanning. What part of Mercer Co ? bruce
Click to expand...
I live in Sharon, my studio is in New Wilmington.
I just looked up kittanning on map quest. Looks like you're maybe 1-1.5 hours from my shop
What town are you in ?
 
If ya draw a circle to include Kittanning, Greensburg, Indiana, Monroeville, I'm in the center of that circle:-) Closest town is Apollo. You get over this way, give me a holler.
It takes me about an hour and 15 minutes to drive to Sandy Lake:-) bruce
 
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