1st Terrain Knives Test

Good work!
no surprise for the field test results.
BTW I knew it will break !
Fortunatly you got a lifetime warranty ! :D

cheers

JM
 
Welcome War,
Testing knives are a lot of fun, but can sometimes be costly...
we all appreciate what we can learn from people who take their knives to the limits.
But, be careful as some makers will not honor warranties if the knives were intentionally abused, or will honor them only once...

I also see that you joined last year, yet this is your first post... I hope to see many more posts from you.
 
Interesting work, concerning the break of the p-ATAK, McClung promotes his knives as being able to take heavy lateral prying, specifically pullups. However, if you do any other work that is "abusive" this can void the warrenty even if the break was caused by something completely different. This is what happened in my case on the second time I broke a TUSK.

In any case, one thing you might want to consider for future work is when time permits resharpen the knives and try some of the work again to verify for example that you see a similar loss in blunting or similar extent of edge damage. Sometimes you can put more or less stress on a knife when stabbing or cutting through hard materials so if you average the results of a few trials you smooth out these variations.

I hope to see more reviews in the future.

-Cliff
 
Ouch, that's gotta hurt. Kind of an expensive knife to have snap in your hand. I have heard other stories of MD's breaking. The Swamp Rats are supposed to be amazingly tough. Nice write up and pics!
 
Cliff Stamp said:
concerning the break of the p-ATAK, McClung promotes his knives as being able to take heavy lateral prying, specifically pullups. However, if you do any other work that is "abusive" this can void the warrenty even if the break was caused by something completely different. This is what happened in my case on the second time I broke a TUSK.

-Cliff
Click to expand...

Thank you for you opinion. I had luck and was taking apart of these tests. To be honest - for now we have very big problems with warranty replacement - just like you said. Please check this topic for your reference. It was a pretty big suprize for us - its something like HOWTO "How to be unkind for your customers".
 
DOH im speechless!

Didn't it come to your mind to ask about the guarantee before you
performed the ''tests'' :rolleyes:

It sounds a little bit like the Kliff Stump review of the Battle Mistress vs.
a Chainsaw...
 
hannes w said:
DOH im speechless!

Didn't it come to your mind to ask about the guarantee before you
performed the ''tests'' :rolleyes:

It sounds a little bit like the Kliff Stump review of the Battle Mistress vs.
a Chainsaw...
Click to expand...

To be honest - we all were sure this knife will hold it. And in our opinion it looks like there was a defect in the steel. Otherwise this knife was able to hold it.
 
MelancholyMutt said:
But, be careful as some makers will not honor warranties if the knives were intentionally abused
Click to expand...
Well... that is the-big-issue here actually I guess...
 
@TloluviN

Well then send it to him and let him have a look. I think he is willing
to do so. But be prepared that you maybe won't get your knife replaced.

I really don't know the sales pitch on MD Knives or their warranty claims
but in my opinion if you submit a knife to a destruction test then you
do it in consent with the maker or on your own risk, period.

For now you sound to me like: I intentionally broke it and now this cheap
B****** won't replace it with a happy smile on his face.

On the other hand SRKW claims that their products can chop through new
cinder blocks without edge failures so if you duplicate this test and break
one then it is your right to get it replaced or to bitch an whine about it.

To get an end to my ramblings: For me a knife is first an foremost a cutting
tool everything else is a bonus as long as it isn't claimed otherwise by the
maker/producer.
 
In an email to MD Piotr Makuch wrote , "Swamp Rat "Battle
Rat" (one of the brands I DON'T like at all and don't support)"

Any reason why you don't like and don't support SRKW ? Considering the fact , if it was any SRKW knife , there would be no problem with the warranty .
 
hannes w said:
For now you sound to me like: I intentionally broke it and now this cheap
B****** won't replace it with a happy smile on his face.
Click to expand...


Please read it carefully. For now it sounds: This damn idiots have broken my masterpiece and they want to have replacement. Sorry, but there were unnecessary bad words about us and our country spoken. What it has to do with our warranty claim? Nothing.
 
The cinder block test is vastly over rated as an "abusive" test, several *production* knives have done it with no harm, and thus it is hardly out of the question to ask at least the same level of performance from a custom costing several times more. In fact it would be reasonable to assume better performance not less.

The general opinion on this test changed after Jerry Busse started having *live* demonstrations done chopping the blocks with the production Swamp Rat knives. Then several custom makers realized that they could no longer call it highly abusive as it would then directly admit their knives were directly inferior in regards to toughness (unless you want to argue the Swamp Rat knives have overly thick and obtuse edges which they do not).

Comments on cutting the fridge are just lame, that is just *mild steel* you could cut it with a Gil Hibben fantasy knife if you were so inclined.

As for "intentional" testing, yes I would hope that anyone and everyone who buys a knife designed for emergency/survival work would test it vigerously before actually depending on it in a life or death situation. To do otherwise is very irresponsible from my point of view. When you get your breaks on your car fixed to you want until you need to come to a stop violently to see if they hold, or do you proceed to test them out right away, gradually building up the application until you come to a heavy first stop.

As for the knife only being 3/16", yes it was. However is was also very short, in particular look at the 3/16" Fallkniven blades prying (on their website). This by the way doesn't imply Fallkniven are super strong, at this short of a lever it gets difficult to break thinner blades.

TloluviN, thanks for the reference link, it is no surprise to me, I went through the same thing, and saw it happen on other occasions. It can be an expensive lesson (it was cheap for you compared to me I broke a TUSK), but very cheap compared to what could have happened if you didn't test the knife until you actually needed it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
thank you for your opinion. To be honest - I wonder why manufacturers and knifemakers threat such tests like abuse. Its the best way to show customers, that all advantages of their knives are truth. We all were suprized with Kevin's behaviour, because he threat us like hord of drunk barbarians. I really dont understand people, who clapp when he is doing like this. We can check if all features of the knife are right without harming anybody and when it is not a matter of life or death. For people who hard-use knives, dont just collect them is really important if they can really put their trust in the knife.
You are right that it would be expensive lesson, but after all the good things I heard about Mad Dog Im just shocked. There is many ways to kindly say: NO - I wont replace this knife.

TloluviN
 
cgd160 said:
Any reason why you don't like and don't support SRKW ? Considering the fact , if it was any SRKW knife , there would be no problem with the warranty .
Click to expand...

First of all, I think that Swamp Rat knives offer very good performance for reasonable money. I’ve underlined that also not once, not twice on Polish knife forums. Also I really like Busse Combat blades. That’d be my first choice for heavy-heavy-duty outdoor chopper, no questions about that. Some (most?) people treat Busse and SR as similar knifes of similar origin… not me! For me the only things that link Busse and SR are: a) design b) Jerry & Jennifer :)

Why I don’t like them? It’s very simple… I’ve seen couple of their knives and I’ve been not impressed with the quality and aesthetics. The rubber handle was uneven, the brass thong hole tube was not in-line with the handle, some “chips” of resiprene were left around the hole. Finally the cutting-edge-grind was not as even as I thought. In fact I’m almost sure that I’m over-reacting… however I can’t help the fact that I’m perfectionist as far as knives are concerned and that’s why I prefer Green Beret instead of Camp Tramp. Frankly speaking I’ve been prepared for Fallkniven-like quality… and what I’ve seen was a bit less than Cold Steel “SRK” quality. So I’m not saying that these knives are poor performers… nor that the warranty of SR is a bad one. I’m far from such statements! I just don’t like less-than-perfectly made knives and that’s it! It’s the same with Benchmade… I really like most of US-made models in gold, black and blue line (oh man, I’m so much in love with BM/Snody Activator… can’t put it down) but I just don’t like at all red line, which is made in Taiwan. I just don’t like them, that’s it! I have the same feelings also about Cold Steel BTW. And the factory seaths... man, that is something to-be-replaced-just-after-knife-purchase. So, how can I support any knife I don't like personally? I cant, sorry :(

However, now I’m waiting for my BogDog (with HQ sheath) so my opinion can change, who knows? For me it looks better… at least in the pictures.

Bottom line: Swamp Rat can be a darn good knife, just not for me… till now at least. But let's stick to the topic... MD test & warranty issue.
 
TloluviN said:
...he threat us like hord of drunk barbarians.
Click to expand...

In general the best advice I can give to you is that all such comments should be given the respect they deserve - none. It is trivial to scream insults at someone behind the safety of a keyboard, especially in a forum where you are the moderator and it is populated by your extreme fans. It seems quite childish to me which is why I never payed any attention to it at all.


I really dont understand people, who clapp when he is doing like this.
Click to expand...

It is a celibrity thing mainly, and McClung encourages it so it snowballs.


...but after all the good things I heard about Mad Dog Im just shocked.
Click to expand...


So was I. When I first asked about heavy use knives I got recommendation after recommendation about McClung, prying or course you can pry, they were designed to pass Seal tests which include prying, in fact tests were done by a dealer showing how well they pryed and how other knives broke. These tests were on the same discussion forums McClung hosted. Lots of specific statements were made that there was no comparision to other knives including those from Busse Combat. Of course in the latter they were right, but not in the way I thought at the time.

Piter, the fit and finish of a Swamp Rat is on average likely inferior to the Green Beret from Reeves, in fact I would go further and say that in the majority of the cases Reeves products would probably have an edge over the Busse Combat line in that regard, Reeves products hold up to a lot of customs in regards to fit and finish, his tolerances for most aspects are very high, it is one of his strongest points. If you have the time, I would appreciate a comparison of the other aspects of the Beret vs Camp Tramp.

-Cliff
 
@ TloluviN

I'm in no way defending Mr. McClung heck i don't even own one of his knives
but the first couple of postings between him and PiterM sound very nice and
civil.

Then there is a little picking on you and your friends between forum regulars
ok not really gentlemanlike but isn't the start of a flamewar either.

For my part the first really rude posting is from you so this could be
intentionally or just a mishap as english is not your mothertounge aswell as it
isn't mine - go figure :) .

Conclusion:
a thread that can only go from bad to worse
a broken knife that should be examined by the maker as he was willing to do so
some busted expectations about what is normal usage and what is abuse and what is covered by a warranty

May I suggest some new samples for a hardcore test

Graham Razel

BK&T Tac Tool

Hayes Tac 1

Strider Model BD

good luck
 
Pioter (First of all , get off the defensive , I was just asking a question , which you answered.) , I don't read the Polish forums , so there is no way I would have known you made any statements about SRWK . I only know what you wrote to MD .

But let's stick to the topic... MD test & warranty issue.
Click to expand...

As far as the topic goes , it was a test and not specific to MD's (remember there was a Swamp Rat involved) . The warranty issue didn't come up until MD declined to replace the knife and that's an entirely new topic . Finally , you bring up Benchmade , Cold Steel , Fallkniven and Chris Reeve Knives and then tell me to stick to the topic :rolleyes: .
 
cgd160 said:
Finally , you bring up Benchmade , Cold Steel , Fallkniven and Chris Reeve Knives and then tell me to stick to the topic :rolleyes: .
Click to expand...
That was totally OT on my side, I agree, ha ;)
but you've asked :p
 
Just another little word of Peace.

Breaking a knife is not a big deal. It happens even with famous brand and/or talentuous makers.

Now, don't get mad about MD. He always has been 'that' rude with a keyboard especially with European people. From his beautiful state of Arizona: French are smelly, Polish are drunk... Breaking his knives is 'impossible' unless you are a kind of ape... Kevin Maclung is lucky, he got enough business to behave like he does.

My advice:
Try to meet him one of this days and you will understand a lot about him too.
(But you will be obliged to fly to the US as I don't think MD will ever come to a European blade show...)

FYI 7 years ago, with Fred Perrin, we have tested one of his ATAk and decided not to publish the review unless we wanted to be as 'rude' as him. I evenremember he was claiming he was ready "to be confronted" to Fred or myself at next blade show... :rolleyes:

There is also a lot of gentlemen in this business: Ray Kirk, James Keating, Michael Janich, Sal Glesser, Les de Asis, Next Livesay, Jeff Randall, Fred Perrin, Mike Perrin, Ian Grenier, Chris Reeve... and so on.. ! So pick one next time you want to test a knife .

Cheers
JM
 
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