2 many "knife-makers?"

3

30-30 Cal.

Joined
Jan 1, 2004
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243
My brother is a talented Japanese sword polisher; he's been doing it quietly and successfully for 25 years. he will not take "new' clients anymore. He l makes beatifully forged knives once in awhile, but he doesn't sell.

Anyway, the other day he said the custom knife market is overwhelmed with makers, both old and new. I said it's a huge market, he said it's small.

What do you guys think? Too many makers? Small market? I know it's all relative, but there must be a concenus here.

Dave
 
The market is small if every maker is in it for the money. There are few that are getting rich but every maker has potential to sell some knives. We all started because of the love of the knife and sometime down the line hoped we could make a living doing what we love, unfortunately the cost of living these days is too high for most of us. Im thinking about living in a van down by the river.
 
If every collector, or knife afficianado only bought one knife, there would be many starving knifemakers.

When I first started, I knew the names, and addresses of most of the makers then. Hell, I don't even know the names of most of them now.

Yes, there's a lot, but many of them are part time, or hobbiest's, or like me, only able to make just a few a year for one reason or other.

But, like nature, knifemaking will regulate itself and the number of makers, by the law of supply, and demand, and it's ability to support itself.:eek::D
 
couldn't have said it better myself, Mike.


I'm not in it for the money, it's a self-supporting pasttime, really. More than a hobby, though. I'm passionate about it. Just don't think I'll ever cross the line into fulltime knifemaking. I do admire those who do, though.
 
Daniel Koster said:
couldn't have said it better myself, Mike.


I'm not in it for the money, it's a self-supporting pasttime, really. More than a hobby, though. I'm passionate about it. Just don't think I'll ever cross the line into fulltime knifemaking. I do admire those who do, though.
Click to expand...
Same with me. I do it because I have a passion for knives. Why?, beats me :D they are just cool I guess. Anyway, I enjoy making them at my leisure and hope when I retire from my regular job, be able to spend more time doing it not necessarily being considered a fulltime maker. As for the original question, I think there are more hobby makers then ones actually making a living at it.
Scott
 
I do not think there are too many knife makers - for the market. Like Mike said, demand will drive how many knives get made. I think anyone who can make a half-decent knife can sell it to someone, assuming their price is reasonable. I've seen some knives that were priced ridiculously (if that's a word) high, and others that seemed far too cheap for what they were.

Many established makers are threatened by part timers who are willing to sell their work at much lower prices. Trying to make a living at this is hard enough without part timers undercutting the pros prices. Of all the concerns that face our market, I think that's the biggest. It can only make it harder for the full time makers to earn a decent living.

Compounding that are the buyers who do not practice due diligence in determining a fair price for the knife they're considering. Someone paying high prices for crap only makes it harder for those who do quality work to realize their value. The solution to this is education - and the experience gained when those fools try to resell their uglies! ;)
 
What Mike said.

Dave, I disagree with what you said about the established maker being threatened by part timers. Look across the knife forums and count all the established makers that spend alot of time on the boards, helping and giving advice. If they felt threatened, they'd be wringing their sweat rag instead of typing :)

If anything, the part timers keep us old farts on our toes.
 
i agree with you guys that the market will regulate itself. I am very struck at knifeshows by the number of makers verus buyers. Everytime I've went to a show, almost all the tables were surrounded by would be buyers.

It's a hobby for me, and one I enjoy. I appreciate the workmanship that goes into a well made knife. Besides, it keeps me out of trouble ;)

Dave
 
excellent point.

knifemakers are surely "on the rise"...

but so are buyers.




Thank goodness!
 
I do and don't think there's to many makers.

I do,only to the point that so many makers don't take the time to really learn the craft before trying to sell, therefore they sell knives that can be and many are low quality. This in turn causes future buyers of more handmade knives to turn away.This business is a hard business to get established in, it takes time to educate and to persuade the public to purchase an unestablished makers work,so for the good of all in this industry,new and old makers alike need to be sure the work they sell is of high quality that compliments us all. Many will say, don't worry about poor makers, that a poor maker will not last long in this profession, this is true, but a poor maker can do a great deal of damage to the market before he's gone.

Also the pricing needs to be better considered by all makers to keep the selling prices more understandable to the public. I know that the better established you become the higher the pricing, but to make and sell knives of damascus or plain steel at just over cost prices confuses the public to the point that they again turn away from hand made knives, they don't understand why two knives of similar steel, shapes and size can be several hundreds of dollars apart. So they walk away scratching their heads. Do the profession a favor and think more about your pricing, you can stay competitive and still sell at a good reasonable price without confusing the public. Matter of fact you will probably sell more, because it will show more pride and confidence in your product.


I don't think there's to many makers to the fact that there'sstill so much to learn and share when it comes to this age old profession. Another thing is we all have different ideals on what type knives we want to produce,carry and use. With many makers and many styles, this opens up the market to intice the public to buy, try and find the benefits of a quality handmade knife.

Bill
 
Bill that's a very good point about pricing. The problem is there really isn't any guideline to figure what you should sell your knives for. You can look at other makers prices, but it's still hard to decide at which price point to be at.
Scott
 
Scott I agree, its probably the toughest part of this business, but if you've made and tested several and proved ( not assumed) to yourself that your work will perform as well as any, then look at other makers knives and consider where your work falls in line to the fitting,amount of detail and materials used you can make a fair accessment as to where the price should fall. One also needs to consider the amount of time they've been making, for many buyers consider that a judge of quality. (even though that can be a poor judgement, its still a fact that many considered). But mostly be fair to yourself, consider the money spent for equipment, materials, supplies and your time, then pick a price thats fair to the market, sure a maker might not be able to charge the same as another maker thats been in this profession for several more years, but thats no reason to price your work just high enough to pay for materials, unless it not worth anymore then that, and if thats the case that maker should take more time to practise and improve before they enter the sellers market. A bad reputation for poor work ( in any profession)can be very hard to over come just because one entered the market to eagerly.

Just my 2 cents

Bill
 
Regarding the North American market, where I sell 90% of what I make, I think the would say that there is still lot of room for new makers.
Yes, the market is kind of confuse at this point, with a huge number of new makers coming in and messing the prices but it will take care of itself in a while.
Or... we can just challenge each other to duels until there is only one maker! Sort of like in Highlander. :D Of course, the allowed weapons would be belt grinders and drill presses.
 
Interesting thing about pricing is that all of the "how to get into knifemaking as a profession" articles I've seen say "price your work low until you get a name for yourself so you get a lot of knives out there and develop a buzz..." So, the advice to new makers has clasically been to undercut competition, in effect. From my perspective as a part-timer, I charge what I think the knife is worth based on what people charge for similar pieces and I can afford to sit on them until they sell, since I don't rely on them for income. In the high-end, true custom market, though, I think experienced makers win out. No one is going to pay multi-thousands on someone without a known name. That said, there are people who've been at this for a couple years, like Matt Cucchiara, who make incredible, complex knives and may as well have been at it for decades.
 
I have considered myself a "serious" maker for around six years. I love the compettion. I believe its healthy for there to be such a high degree of talent
with a fairly narrow focus. If your interest is in the progression of the knife,
then you are living in a period of wonder. Lets all make some knives and share them. Fred
 
Dave,
I do believe thats the overall allure of knife making.
I took a look @ your p.p. Whatever is the creature in your avatar? It sure as hell made me laugh. God I hope it's not a picture of your wife.
Hopefully Fred
 
I have really developed a deep appreciation for knives in the past 5 years, and in the past year, I have decided that I really want to give a try at making a knife, and see if it is something I want to keep on doing. I am not expecting to make any money, I don't even know if anyone would want to buy one, I am fully expecting to make some mistakes along the way too. No harm making money, but if it's all about money, I think the creativity takes a dive.
 
Fred.Rowe said:
Dave,
Whatever is the creature in your avatar? It sure as hell made me laugh. God I hope it's not a picture of your wife.
Hopefully Fred
Click to expand...
Well Fred we can't take ourselves too seriously can we? :D I hope not!

That's Emu, Uma's ugly sister. Got some hellacious legs on her though... ;) I think Uma went telling tales about me one drunken night, 'cause it wasn't too long after Uma's and my "thing" that Emu started calling me too... I wish those chicks would just leave me alone! I don't know how many husbands Uma's had since then but she just will not give me a break. Can't say's I blame her really - I was something else for a few months there, you'd have thought I was 25 again - but Cripes! You'd think she'd get the hint. Blondes. :rolleyes: My wife, bless her soul, just shakes her head. She knows where they're coming from. :D Can I give them your number? Just so long as you can keep up, I don't want them starting to call me again...

Hopefully,
 
Thanks for setting me straight on that. I assumed a knife maker would have a knife as an avatar, or such. When I saw the emu, it just cracked me up.
Thanks for the laugh, Fred :D :D :D
 
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