2012 HTM Forum Gunhammer: Blade steel poll, version 2.0 -- *INPUT NEEDED*

[neuron]

Alright, time for a second (and hopefully final) blade steel poll. As those of you who have been following some of the other threads around here know, the winner of the last blade steel poll, CTS-XHP, turned out to be the "mystery steel" that Darrel was already planning to do a 600-piece limited edition HTM Gunhammer in. Obviously, that doesn't mean CTS-XHP can't be the blade steel -- in fact, it'd probably make things easier on the production side of things -- but for a number of folks, myself included, part of the appeal of doing a forum-designed Gunhammer is putting together a knife that's unique in its various facets, blade steel included.

A few notes on the poll:

1. Since Elmax and CTS-XHP dominated the voting in the original poll, I've dropped the other options (CPM-S30V, CPM-S35VN, etc.). I've also dropped the "any of these is fine" option; vote for whichever you'd like most, and then note in the comments if you'd be fine with the others as well.

2. I've added CPM-S90V as an option, which as Hark mentioned in the other thread would add $50 to the cost of the knife (total cost of $360, versus $310 for the other steels). I know there are other 9% Vanadium steels out there that folks might want to try, such as CTS-20CP (Carpenter's version of S90V) and CPM-S110V, but the availability and price of S90V make it the safest bet, and I know Darrel has used it before on a production knife (a limited run of the 18-XRAY automatic). If it turns out we can get 20CP or S110V, great, but cast your vote assuming S90V will be what we get if we go the 9% Vanadium route.

3. I've also included CPM-M4 as an option since it's been mentioned in the discussion thread and is easily obtainable in appropriate stock sizes; I assume the cost would be the same as CTS-XHP and Elmax (i.e., $310). Note, though, that CPM-M4 isn't stainless and that since stonewashed was the runaway winner in the blade finish poll, there won't be a blade coating. (In my own experience, non-stainless high-alloy steels such as CPM-M4, K390, and so forth are fine in terms of corrosion resistance with basically any finish except bead-blasting, but I did want to mention it for those who prefer their non-stainless steels to have a blade coating.)

4. I've set the poll to close 7 days from today, so get your votes in soon!

 

[harkamus]

I want to point out that while you guys might pick a steel that's unique right now, nothing says that Darrel can't use that steel in some future order, or even if he thinks the Gunhammer line should move to that steel (doubtful, but possible). Yes, it's a forum sprint run and limited to, I dunno, 25 pieces or so, but if some other dealer wants to order a knife exclusive in the steel, I'm guessing Darrel would agree to that. What he won't do is offer the exact same configuration as the forum know, so your color choice should remain unique for example. But, you have to realize the nature of knife making is such that steels get upgraded over time. Perhaps, down the road, Darrel will find it necessary to offer "this" blade steel as a standard configuration.

The scenario is illustrated perfectly by the fact that he was allowing you guys to use CTS-XHP despite that being a 600 piece run.

 

[neuron]

I want to point out that while you guys might pick a steel that's unique right now, nothing says that Darrel can't use that steel in some future order, or even if he thinks the Gunhammer line should move to that steel (doubtful, but possible). Yes, it's a forum sprint run and limited to, I dunno, 25 pieces or so, but if some other dealer wants to order a knife exclusive in the steel, I'm guessing Darrel would agree to that. What he won't do is offer the exact same configuration as the forum know, so your color choice should remain unique for example. But, you have to realize the nature of knife making is such that steels get upgraded over time. Perhaps, down the road, Darrel will find it necessary to offer "this" blade steel as a standard configuration.

The scenario is illustrated perfectly by the fact that he was allowing you guys to use CTS-XHP despite that being a 600 piece run.

Of course. All that I, and I assume most others involved in the discussion, mean by "unique" is "unique at the time it's made".

 

[Ramiel]

S90V gets my vote. It's the only steel on the list I don't already have and I love variety in my collection. Plus, from everything I've heard about it, it's fantastic.

 

[neuron]

S90V gets my vote. It's the only steel on the list I don't already have and I love variety in my collection. Plus, from everything I've heard about it, it's fantastic.

Yeah, if you've never had a knife in S90V or another 9% Vanadium steel, you'll be blown away by how long it holds a good working edge. Plus, I've heard amazing things about Darrel's heat-treat of S90V, so even though I've had a couple non-DDR/HTM knives in the steel, I'd be really stoked if it ends up being the pick for this knife.

 

[TriviaMonster]

Oh Neuron you jerk, you just had to put S90V in there. I can eat ramen, I like the oriental and spicy chicken flavors a lot.

On a side note to those skeptical about spending the extra $50, it is steep, I will admit that. But, if you do decide to get one and you don't like it, I am sure someone will take it off your hands for a very reasonable amount. Knives in S90V are fairly rare as far as folders go, and especially rare in the non-custom world.

If ~$360 is the utmost money you have ever spent on a knife, think of it this way, you are getting a mid tech/semi custom knife from Darrel Ralph made right here in the USA. It will be a limited number of knives, and will exceed the steel on any production Gunhammers to date. The closest would be M390, and S90V is quite a bit better IMHO. Okay, a lot better.

This is a Grail Steel on an amazing knife, add bearings and a stonewash into the mix and you have a very unique knife.

Welcome to the big league. Vote how you want, but don't be afraid of

 

[Scurvy092]

Of course. All that I, and I assume most others involved in the discussion, mean by "unique" is "unique at the time it's made".

+1

If another knife gets the steel down the road, no biggie. It would just be nice to have THE FIRST GH in a particular steel.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

I'd be happy enough with Elmax, so I voted for that. But if I have to, I'll pay for S90V.

 

[neuron]

Deal-spotting?

As for the $50 additional cost for S90V, IMHO it's very reasonable. It's comparable to, or perhaps even less than, the bump you see in price on Spyderco sprint runs using S90V or ZT limited editions with CB cutting edges in alternative steels (e.g., Elmax, ZDP-189), as compared to their regular production counterparts. (Keep in mind that with S90V and other 9%+ vanadium steels, the increased cost comes not just from the higher cost of the material itself, but also from the increased time and machinery wear involved in working with it.)

 

[Chipped Karambit]

Damn,..........split between m4 and elmax, I love M4 but when i live in the states, I live in a town on the ocean.....

 

[TriviaMonster]

Damn,..........split between m4 and elmax, I love M4 but when i live in the states, I live in a town on the ocean.....

I can help you. S90V has equal or better corrosion resistance as 440C. Bam! S90V's stain resistance plus this

Remote Controlled Ramen noodle cart (not a joke) = stain resistance plus wear resistance.

Also, why isn't Rasta-Frei included in the poll? Does Darrel not have the secret herbs needed for heat treat?

But, if S90V is a no go, ELMAX is my backup. I will be doing a full sharpening of my ELMAX flipper knife tonight, curious to see how it does? Actually I may have to do my ZDP Delica, ugh. Stupid thing chips if I even look at it. I vote for not ZDP-189 at ~64Hrc. You know how I chipped the blade up? Stripping and attempting to cut some solid copper wire

My ELMAX flipper knife did it with zero damage and is still sharp enough to shave my arm hair after about three months of EDC and some heavy chores throughout. I will say that ELMAX is one heck of a stainless steel, and it is worlds better than S30V in every category. I predict that it will become the new S30V, and S30V will become the new 154CM, which in turn will become the new anything but 420HC.

 

[Chipped Karambit]

This may seem odd but if its 360$ i may not be able to get. (Ya I am broke as hell with an expensive ass college bill )

 

[TriviaMonster]

This may seem odd but if its 360$ i may not be able to get. (Ya I am broke as hell with an expensive ass college bill )

I have college bills AND my AC just wen't out in my car. I may have to switch to the off brand ramen. So, maybe we need another poll: Should I have AC in my car, or an S90V Gunhammer...?

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Well, looks like the S90V is dominating this time... We'll see if we get enough people signing up for it to actually work.

 

[Chipped Karambit]

I have college bills AND my AC just wen't out in my car. I may have to switch to the off brand ramen. So, maybe we need another poll: Should I have AC in my car, or an S90V Gunhammer...?

been on ramen for the last year, I am in vietnam now and i had to switch to pho lol 75 cents for a bowl or 50 cents for a banh mi lol i am going to sell/trade my umnumzaan to get the money for this knife but i doubt i can get 360. i will try though

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Hmm, Umnum is the only CRK I'm really at all interested in. I have to say though, from handling Sebbies and Umnum's at the gun show, I still prefer Darrel's work any day.

 

[TriviaMonster]

I have a little update on sharpening my "other" bearing flipper in ELMAX. I didn't actually end up sharpening it as I just had a teeny tiny roll about 2mm long right in the belly. I thought I would have to sharpen it, but instead did a bit of stropping using 0.5u (~60K Grit) Chromium Oxide paste from Hand America. I used a balsa strop that I made for my Edge Pro (works better than the leather one that came with the machine, and I have about 50 replacement strops worth of balsa for $5).

The edge was no longer shaving sharp before I stropped it. I did about 6-8mins per side in total. Wow, is it sharp. I actually managed to strop the small roll out of the edge which surprised me. After about 3 months of EDC I couldn't really find any substantial chips, just a few that were extremely small and could be stropped out. I could only see those with my 40X loupe. Even then, the chips appeared small. I am really surprised how well this steel handles itself. I could be looking at another 3 months before I need to touch up the edge, and even then I may just start with my Chosera 1K and work my way to a mirror shine.

I think stropping is an important way to maintain one's edges, noobs take note. It's easier to strop than it is to learn free hand so those who send off their knives for sharpening would really benefit from owning a strop. You could cut your number of sharpenings in half on a good blade steel.

Anyways, back to my point. ELMAX is every bit of a super steel so far. Not quite the sheer wear resistance of M390 or S90V. But, it does appear to have a level of toughness that neither can match all while being better in about every category than S30V. Until I can get rid of the factory edge, it isn't whittling hair, but is sharper than the fairly good factory edge. It shaves arm hair clean and face hair somewhat which in my book is good. I won't know for sure how fine an edge it can take until I can even up the edge as mine appears to be a bit asymmetrical. Just from my stropping though, I cannot picture my knives in S30V taking such a fine edge so easily, but that is only my opinion.

If I get bored I may reprofile the edge to see just how fine an edge it can take, because even though the factory edge was good, it doesn't really do ELMAX any justice. In fact, due to less overall alloy and fewer hard vanadium carbides, I could see this taking an even finer edge than M390. I have no doubt that it can take a finer edge than S90V, but can't compare it to M390 yet (which takes a stupid fine edge for an ultra high wear resistant steel).

To complete my late night rambling, ELMAX is a fantastic steel that hopefully will begin to replace S30V/S35VN in mid range knives. It is extremely tough, and has much greater wear resistance than the S30V/S35VN steels. Also, it is stain resistant on a whole other level. 18% Chromium in a steel with enough alloying elements to keep a ton of free chromium helps out a lot I guess.

Hopefully this gives some insight to those who haven't used ELMAX yet. It's a top notch steel, after S90V of course

 

[Buffalohump]

I dont think S90V is worth the premium over ELMAX. I voted for ELMAX. Its some good shit!

 

[Chipped Karambit]

Hmm, Umnum is the only CRK I'm really at all interested in. I have to say though, from handling Sebbies and Umnum's at the gun show, I still prefer Darrel's work any day.

ya I am trading/selling it so i can get money for the gunhammer. I got my Spydergrail (M390 Black PM2 with custom scales being made) and now I want a counterpart for it. So I want the Gunhammer. How long will orders be taken ? Because I wont get back into the US for a month or so and wont have money til like september

 

[drillsgt71]

I only have one knife in S90V and it cuts like a razor after years of use with minimum care/sharpening.