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Mar 1, 2002
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My #2 son showed up Saturday afternoon with some things he called Khuks. One he ordered from Brigade Quatermaster? The other came from Atlanta.
Didn't look like none of mine.

He pulled out the black blade from Quarter.- and asked if he could go down by the creek and see how it would cut. I talked him into drinking some coffee and then I would go with him. I pointed out a limb that was just the right height to smack even some of the Grandbabies in the face. Just before he swung that blade I told him to make sure he was swing straight because that blade looked awful thin. He swung, the blade bounced, and I hollered at him not to swing again. I was straight behind him only to the side enough to watch that blade.
He did what he was told and the knife came unglued right at the sweet spot. It left a triangle chunk of blade in that limb as close as I could measure about 5/8 long and 3/8 to 7/16 high. The thing that really gets to me is, that knife is supposed to be made by Ontario out of 1095 steel. the same kind of steel Marine K-bars are made of, and those blades are good for only cutting and stabbing, nothing else.

I waited while he went to the house and got his other knife. On another limb but of about the same thickness. He hit twice and it was down. He move his strike a bit and took the other one off in two hits. there is nothing pretty about this knife from India, but it is head and shoulders above the Onterio knife. There was a sticker on the India blade that read "Windlass"

Bryan used the Windlass knife for about an hour and it not only stayed pretty sharp there just was no appreciable wear that I could see. I can't say much for the karda and chakma. They were just for looks. Not even useable. The big blade was a full 1/4 inch thick and felt like you had a knife in your hand. Chiruwa type handle of Oak.

The Ontario knife was less that a 1/4" and was a straight taper to about 1/16 or less just almost to the edge. The black coating that is supposed to prevent rust was covering machine marck and large patches of grind marks on both sides of the blade.

Sound like junk to me. The young man was hot. He said "31 years old. When am I going to learn to listen when you tell me something is a bad idea."

Now he is saving his pennies to get an HI Khuk.:)
 
Thanks for report from the field, Pappy. The Windlass khukuri is made by Windlass Steelworks in Dehra Dun, India. Some can be pretty good and some can be awful. I don't think they have a QC program in effect. I don't think I've ever even seen an Ontario product of any kind so am in no position to comment.
 
:D I'm glad I found this site before learning the hard way on what a good khuk is.

Some people learn from books, some people learn from being taught and some people have to urinate on the electric fence themselves. :)
 
You sure got that right Bruise. Have a good day and God Bless.
Gotta go, I've got a mountain of things I need to get done real soon. Adios!
 
Pappy,

This was the original version of the Ontario Khukuri. The blade runs 1/4" thick (or actually thickens near the edge according to Cliff's calliper) all the way to the edge. It doesn't cut very well but it can chop. Unfortunately, the blade wasn't sexy enough so it was redesigned to take the edge grind all the way up to the spine. The result was the lighter knife that your son purchased.

n2s

This one is on its way to Berkley :)

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Bill,

Once you get to play with one of these, you can really appreciate the quality of your Himilayan Imports.

n2s
 
Windlass manufacture a huge range of reproduction medieval swords &c for Hank Reinhardt's outfit, Museum Replicas Ltd.

Quality of the MRL products is, well, variable - some of them are extremely good, such as the three spearheads I bought from them a few years back - goo steel, properly heat treated; and some of them are junk, such as the medieval-style sword I examined a while back, which fell to pieces in the owner's hand before he even had a chance to use it. All of the MRL pieces I've seen are good looking, well-finished and extremely faithful copies of the originals; it's just that if you're unlucky, you may get one that snaps like a carrot if you try and sharpen a pencil with it...
 
That's pretty much the feedback I've heard from the field, Tom. If you're lucky you get a damned good piece. If you're unlucky you get junk. It's all in the draw.
 
The thing that made my son so mad was that the knife he paid the most for ended up being the piece of junk. I'm sure he said he didn't pay over $23.00 for the India knife and the other was about $50.00, and that doesn't cover the shipping he had to pay. After all is over, I'm glad that not both were trash. He seems to like that 12" blade.

The Ontario he left here. He told me to do whatever with it. I've got some very heavy south American wood that I will use for a new handle and the blade will be reshaped just a bit,but hhe will get it back if for nothing but to hang on the wall. The Ontario sheath looks like a joke to me. By the time you got a knife out of it yo'd already be dead.:D
 
The picture (A) looks like the one my son had out here. I'm surprised that the blade worked out as good as it did.
 
Originally IIRC, MRL/Atlanta Cutlery was owned by Reinhardt. They cut deals with Windlass for some of their completed blades. They also contracted with Del Tin for sword blades which were handled in the US.

Windlass bought Reinhardt out. He still acts as a figurehead occassionally, but no longer has say over QC. And most all MRL/AC stuff comes from India.

Maybe three years back I sent Cliff Stamp about 4 or 6 of the Ontario line for testing, then they brought out the first version of their so called khuk, and I sent it to him as well. It had loser stamped all over it ( figuratively ) and after buying some HI's, it was like going from a 20 ga. SXS upland Purdy to an AK47. One ( HI ) almost anticipated what you wanted, the other ( Ontario ) was as awkward, ornery, and contrary as a mule.
 
The thing that made my son so mad was that the knife he paid the most for ended up being the piece of junk.

Pappy, You could try to return this one to Brigade Quartermasters. They would probably exchange it for a new one.

Calling it junk is a little harsh. The current Ontario knife has a light weight blade which makes it unsuitable for heavy wood chopping. Even if you managed to keep the blade intact the thin blade would bind badly. I would relegate the khukuri-like knives made by Ontario, Becker Knife and Tool, and Cold Steel (LTC), to machete like roles. They should work well on soft vegetation where a fast light blade is a plus.

At least take comfort that it happened with the Ontario; the other light khukuries are running for a little over $100 a copy.

Cliff Stamp recently broke a Border Patrol machete in a similar way. First a funny impact followed by a shattered blade. Long blades generate alot of force and it takes a properly designed heavy blade
to survive it. HI khukuries run at least 3/8-1/2" thick; they can take alot of abuse, the heavier models are made to chop wood efficiently. Other similar knives like the Al Mar Pathfinder and the Loft Wiesman Survival knife (pic below) proved to be somewhat fragile even though they were a full 1/4" thick, and much more expensive then your Ontario.

Each knife can be made to work well within its design parameter, but you can't swing everything full force into a tree and have it survive. It's too bad that we don't have an honest rating system for these tools. We are going to have to exercise caution if we are going to get the most from our knives.

n2s
 
n2s,

How much do you think the lack of differential hardening affects the durability of these khuk-like offerings? It seems that differential hardening is only available in the West on handmade custom tools.
 
Fir,
Have you ckecked the prices for the same custom jobs? Whew!
The first time I saw a hand forged bowie and its resultant astronomical price at a local gun show I nearly made <insert scatological reference here> in my drawers.
It was 1800.00.
Gimme an 18" AK any day. :cool:

Heck at those prices gimme a bucket full.
 
Hey Pappy,

Good story. BTW I am the same age as your son. Guess we lucked out to discover HI so young... :D

Andrew Limsk

Originally posted by Pappy
My #2 son showed up Saturday afternoon with some things he called Khuks. One he ordered from Brigade Quatermaster? The other came from Atlanta.
Didn't look like none of mine.

He pulled out the black blade from Quarter.- and asked if he could go down by the creek and see how it would cut. I talked him into drinking some coffee and then I would go with him. I pointed out a limb that was just the right height to smack even some of the Grandbabies in the face. Just before he swung that blade I told him to make sure he was swing straight because that blade looked awful thin. He swung, the blade bounced, and I hollered at him not to swing again. I was straight behind him only to the side enough to watch that blade.
He did what he was told and the knife came unglued right at the sweet spot. It left a triangle chunk of blade in that limb as close as I could measure about 5/8 long and 3/8 to 7/16 high. The thing that really gets to me is, that knife is supposed to be made by Ontario out of 1095 steel. the same kind of steel Marine K-bars are made of, and those blades are good for only cutting and stabbing, nothing else.

I waited while he went to the house and got his other knife. On another limb but of about the same thickness. He hit twice and it was down. He move his strike a bit and took the other one off in two hits. there is nothing pretty about this knife from India, but it is head and shoulders above the Onterio knife. There was a sticker on the India blade that read "Windlass"

Bryan used the Windlass knife for about an hour and it not only stayed pretty sharp there just was no appreciable wear that I could see. I can't say much for the karda and chakma. They were just for looks. Not even useable. The big blade was a full 1/4 inch thick and felt like you had a knife in your hand. Chiruwa type handle of Oak.

The Ontario knife was less that a 1/4" and was a straight taper to about 1/16 or less just almost to the edge. The black coating that is supposed to prevent rust was covering machine marck and large patches of grind marks on both sides of the blade.

Sound like junk to me. The young man was hot. He said "31 years old. When am I going to learn to listen when you tell me something is a bad idea."

Now he is saving his pennies to get an HI Khuk.:)
 
I thought I would just make a comment regarding the various "modern" style khukuris I've owned prior to finding this great cantina.

Benchmade, I own 2, light kydex sheath, ok, but not too heavy for chopping.
Al Mar pathfinder, I just sold one a week ago on ebay to fund my purchases from HI. Impressive blade, scary sharp. I used it once for self defense, awesome!!!! And once I nearly completely severed my index finger on my left hand. Handle is terrible for control, but the edge held up.
Machax [Becker Tool] great camp tool, good control and edge retention.
Cold steel ATC, it's now for sale, paid $220.00 and it's useless next to Hi khukuris.
Brut [Becker Tool] ok, limited use for me, gave it away to friend while working in Japan.
Blackjack's Reinhart's khukuri is identical to my M43 with a neoprene grip[??]

I know other people may have different opinions of these products, I had mine for over twenty years and the "newer" ones don't compare to what was previously made.

I hate to wine but I spent over a thousand dollars for all the factory khukuris and never liked any except for Reinhart's. Too bad there wasn't HI 25 years ago.
All the best, Sam
 
How much do you think the lack of differential hardening affects the durability of these khuk-like offerings?

Answer: It would affect it to some extent. Although, the Ontario pappy tested was probably impacted more by the design.

Differential hardening is an important factor, and certainly something we might want to have on a blade that is going to be subjected to this kind of use. The heat treatment, steel type, edge bevels, blade grinds, weight, balance, and handle design are equally important. The knives are simply tools designed (at least in theory) to fulfill a given purpose. We do ourselves a disservice by focusing on just one of the variables, by assuming that these knives are all designed for the same purpose, or, by taking it for granted that all blades must be differentially heat treated.

n2s
 
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