2018 Haywood Community College ABS Knife Making Classes

KHall

KHall

Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Messages
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2018 Haywood Community College
American Bladesmith Society
Class Schedule​

2018 Date -------- Class -------------------------- Instructor
Feb 19-23 ---------- Survival Knife ------------------ Scott McGhee
March 22-25 ------- Smoky Mountain Hammer-In
March 19 -30 ------ Introduction to Bladesmithing -- Greg Neely and Scott McGhee
May 14-18 --------- Folders --------------------------- Daniel Warren
June 4-8 ----------- Handles and Guards ------------ James Rodebaugh
Oct 1-12 ----------- Introduction to Bladesmithing - Jim Crowell

More details - https://www.haywood.edu/instruction/workforce-continuing-education/bladesmithing

Reg form - https://www.haywood.edu/files/instruction/workforce-continuing-education/registration/workforce-con-ed-registration-form.pdf
 
Thanks for posting Ken, see you guys at the Hammer-In.


I've said before and I'll say again, to anybody that might be in driving distance. Taking the "Handles & Guards" class with Jim Rodebaugh is the best money I've ever spent in my knifemaking career, and set me years ahead, in a week. You couldn't ask for a better instructor, if you're a "good" knifemaker, that's struggling to get *perfect* guard fits, or don't feel great about your handle process or results, this will solve that, although it's really not for stone beginners. However, Jim will tailor the instruction to your level.

Daniel Warren is who got me started making slipjoints, and taught me much of what I know about them over the years. If you wanna get your feet wet, and come home with a functional slipjoint, check out that class. He's a great guy, a great teacher, and a great maker.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
Maybe this will be the year I can finally take the folder class.
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It'd be well worth the money, and likely save you over the loss of money on mistakes and crap you bought trying to get started on your own. I've taught myself much of what I know in knifemaking, but every time I spend time with a better maker, especially when I got started making slipjoints, it's brutally obvious to me how much money I *haven't* saved, being stubborn and trying to figure out everything myself.

I know there's a pride aspect to "teaching oneself" this or that, but in fairness, unless you live in a hole somewhere without the internet, interaction with another maker, or books on the subject, are any of us truly "self taught"?
 
I'm conflicted between folders and handles and guards, folders likely to win out.
 
DanF said:
I'm conflicted between folders and handles and guards, folders likely to win out.
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Handles and guard is what I'd recommend, if it's an area you don't already feel EXTREMELY confident in. This will give you the most progress in general knifemaking, and will apply heavily to taking a folder class later.

Even if you're not an advanced knifemaker, you should leave with a working slipjoint from the folders class, however, if you're not already very confident, don't expect to go home and start making good slipjoints. Doing them well, takes a lot of time, and and investment in some higher end equipment, if you want to do good work.


It's up to each of us to decide what we want, and I understand the allure of "coming home with a trophy", however, if you're serious about this art, I'd recommend approaching this decision from a standpoint of investment in a skill. It's pretty easy to go to a class before you're ready, have the instructor hold your hand through it, and end up not being able to apply the techniques you learn, once you get home. I've seen it time, and again. Looking through some photos you've posted recently, making some assumptions about where you're at currently based on that, I think you'd really benefit from the Handles & Guards class, even if it may not sound as fun as the slipjoint class. Hope this is taken as constructively as it's intended. However, if you're more interested in the "fun" or "entertainment" value of the class, then yes, the folders class will definitely be that. If ultimately you're planning to do both, taking the Handles & Guards class will give you an immediate and significant boost in skill level, and really set you ahead to get the most out of the folder class, when you take it later.
 
javand said:
It'd be well worth the money, and likely save you over the loss of money on mistakes and crap you bought trying to get started on your own. I've taught myself much of what I know in knifemaking, but every time I spend time with a better maker, especially when I got started making slipjoints, it's brutally obvious to me how much money I *haven't* saved, being stubborn and trying to figure out everything myself.

I know there's a pride aspect to "teaching oneself" this or that, but in fairness, unless you live in a hole somewhere without the internet, interaction with another maker, or books on the subject, are any of us truly "self taught"?
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct. I've wasted countless hours on a variety of endeavors (not just knife making) simply trying to "figure it out" myself. I would have been better served by seeking formal instruction from the beginning.

I suppose that's fine for people who don't really value their time, but it's so much easier to learn the basics from an expert and expand from there.

I've never made a slip joint, but have make liner locks every now and then. I can already tell that certain aspects of slip joint construction are more involved than a simple liner lock.

I may give Daniel a call tomorrow to get a bit more information on the class.
 
javand said:
Doing them well, takes a lot of time, and and investment in some higher end equipment, if you want to do good work.
Click to expand...

What is needed beyond the typical knife making equipment?

Should I go ahead and buy a rise/fall indicator now if I decide to sign up?
 
DanF said:
I'm conflicted between folders and handles and guards, folders likely to win out.
Click to expand...

I'm a big proponent of investing in training and I've done a lot and it's saved me years off learning and struggling.
While I didn't take the handles and guards class at the school, I did spend some time with the instructor James Rodebaugh learning the same handles and guards.

I can tell you that in every class I've paid for, I always get what I paid for and more, often much more.

I don't think I would have been able to make this type of frame handle knife at a high level without the skills and knowledge Rodebaugh gave me. I don't say my work is perfect, but I know it's a lot better than if I were learning on my own.

ftTlNY7.jpg

regards
 
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Mitchell Knives said:
What is needed beyond the typical knife making equipment?

Should I go ahead and buy a rise/fall indicator now if I decide to sign up?
Click to expand...
surface grinder is probably most important

I took a one day class on slip joints with Mike Vagnino ABS MS and we never used a rise fall indicator.
He showed me how to scribe lines on a setup plate to get the right matchup
 
HSC /// said:
surface grinder is probably most important

I took a one day class on slip joints with Mike Vagnino ABS MS and we never used a rise fall indicator.
He showed me how to scribe lines on a setup plate to get the right matchup
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I have that covered with the surface grinding attachment for my TW-90.
 
@ javand, thank you for your well-intended advice, no offense taken.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
What is needed beyond the typical knife making equipment?

Should I go ahead and buy a rise/fall indicator now if I decide to sign up?
Click to expand...

I don't use one personally, some people like them, personally, I built one, but never use it. I find it easier to simply get it close, and then "adjust by feel". I haven't seen Daniel much lately, I moved across town so can't get out there as often as I'd like, but last I checked, he was in the same boat.

The most important tools for building nice slipjoints, at least, the way I build them, are;

a) a good precision drill press, or a mini mill for drilling holes. I don't have a mini-mill, and I don't like them for milling, but they make nice little drill presses. Personally I've got a couple of Hamilton Vari-Matics, and a few Vigor/Grobet Optical drills (high speed, ultra precision, small capacity bench drills), for poking holes.

b) a surface grinder (very few top end slipjoint makers that I know, don't have and use one, yes it's possible, but it's a lot more tedious, and requires a lot more patience, or a lower standard for fit and finish)

c) a horizontal grinder (almost every serious folder maker I know has and uses a dedicated horizontal, there's just too much work that is really difficult to do if you can't grind in this orientation, and/or square up something with a tool rest at exactly 90 degrees to the platen or wheel)

d) a disc grinder (this is optional, but everybody I know that has one, won't give it up for folder work. You can square and flaten much easier on this than any belt grinder, although you need a tool rest also)




If you've got a disc, or are really patient with lapping, and start with precision ground stock, you can maybe get away without a surface grinder, but the moment you use one, you won't want to live without one, and you'll be perpetually feeling like you're fighting shit you shouldn't have to, when you don't.


If you've made other folders, you've probably got much of this stuff, and a good start on making slipjoints. They can of course, be made with much less equipment, but these tools can really help getting everything to come together correctly. You've got tons of tiny interactions from various parts that each contribute to the overall being right or wrong, when you nail it together.


Personally, I'm a big proponent of full sized knee mills, and have two in the shop (a Bridgeport, and a much larger K&T vertical), however, I never use a mill for slipjoint work except to cut integral bolsters. I do however, use the surface grinder on each one.

Yes a SG attachment with a TW-90 will work, but I personally don't find belts and contact wheels as accurate as I'd like for this task. If you assume that you're getting everything perfectly flat/parallel because you're using an "SG" and get a nice finish, you may find yourself fighting stuff. Really flat and really parallel are crucial to slipjoint precision, and it's much easier to achieve with a real SG and stones as opposed to belts. However, Daniel uses a belt converted SG, and gets results he's happy with on it.
 
Mitchell Knives said:
Unfortunately, I don't have a mill yet.

Is it really essential?
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Not remotely, in my opinion.

However, I cut my nail nicks with a surface grinder (stones are the only option for this, so no TW-90 attachment) or a nail nick punch, and I have a different method for relieving so that my blade and liners don't rub.

If you take the class with Daniel, he'll likely show you this method, as he does the same. Without going into detail, we do this is the traditional European method of relieving the blade, as opposed to the liners, which can be done with a surface grinder, instead of milling the liners.

Many antique European folders were done this way, either with aggressive tapers or relieves at the tang, and IMO it makes much more sense, and is much less obvious than relieved liners, however, relieved liners have become so standard in American slipjoints, it's almost a given. I have to explain to people at shows constantly when I see them start looking quizzically at the lack of liner relief, that "yes, I do know what I'm doing". ;)
 
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