.223 as a survival round?

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WVHILLS

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I just purchased a Stag Arms AR-15 with the collapsible stock, and was wondering how practical a survival rifle this would make. It is not too heavy, seems to be very well made and durable, and the ammunition is light but still packs enough punch to bring down good sized game or to be used in self defense. I'm not saying it would bring down a grizzly or even a black bear, but it should be able to handle anything from a coyote or deer or possibly even a cougar. I may also put an Aimpoint red dot scope on it, the newest model the COMPM4 boast a 8 year continous run time off of one single AA battery. Any ideas or input is appreciated:thumbup:
 
I personally prefer a good old.22lr as a survival round..but .223 got to be careful on small game though makes some really big holes...
 
the prob with .223 is it's too big for little stuff, and not big enugh for big stuff. not much more power in a .223 than a .22lr. twice the velocity, same bullet size. there are lots of good bullet choices, but that gets in the way of it being a survival gun, if you have to carry three kinds of ammo. just my thoughts
 
It's not a bad choice, it can be pretty versatile. Lightweight rounds for small game, heavier rounds for larger game (and two legged problems). In that role it will be a jack of all trades situation, so shot placement and careful attention to range will be more important.

Taking the rifle backpacking and hunting will be a good way to decide this less academically. If it's not a good 'fit' for woods carry or the round doesn't lend itself to good hunting, you'll know before you really 'need it'.
 
The only drawback to .223 as a 'survival round' is your not going to be hunting rabits or squirrels and expecting to eat.
That's what traps are for anyway. :D

.223 will easily handle larger game like deer, that will mostly depend on your shot and where you place it though , unless you want to follow a bleeder for a few miles.
One of the biggest benefits of .223 is being able to carry extra ammo because it is lightwieght , comparitivly and somewhat easy on the wallet.

Lastly , there are pros and cons to everything , there is no perfect "survival round" , for that - you will need to draw your own conclusions , as to what suits you and your needs.
 
I think there are many survival scenarios. A 223 is a great round to have in one's battery but for food, I would rather have a 22. The 223 comes into play when you want to keep your food. Add an accurate 22 pistol and your set.

Congrats on a great gun. I've been looking at the Stag line for a while now.

tjg
 
Great for Urban situations IMO but make sure you take that sucker apart in your sleep in know all the major maladies associated with the AR platform. I wouldn't use it in harsh terrain unless its got all the goodies for hard use that force recon gets them with. All told I would stick with a good 12 gauge 590 or a .44 Lever Action. Neither has the range you can get on a bright, clear, still day from the AR but both will do alot of other things well. The collapsible stock adds nothing to accuracy but a good trigger group will. Just my 2 cents worth. Please take no offense as none is meant.
 
I purchased a Ruger mini 14 in 2007 NIB and have been happy with it; great round the .223 caliber but I also have a 10/22 for game rabbit size & under . I think it is a decent all around caliber and like stated earlier pro & cons to all calibers of ammo.I almost bought the stag ar15L model being I am left handed the trouble I have with the mini is like most gun right hand gun set up,I am use to it but from time to time I get frustrated...may buy lever action 44 mag next....
 
I've been using a Colt 22lr conversion in my ARs for 17 years and I've had no problem that I can recall. A .223 is not a bad round for hunting in W. Virginia. You will confront mostly thin skinned creatures and for that matter I was with a friend the day that he got his NEF single shot in .223. We went out to call in a coyote and a black bear showed up instead. He dropped it with the 1 and only round that he had with him.
 
The Chef said:
Great for Urban situations IMO but make sure you take that sucker apart in your sleep in know all the major maladies associated with the AR platform. I wouldn't use it in harsh terrain unless its got all the goodies for hard use that force recon gets them with. All told I would stick with a good 12 gauge 590 or a .44 Lever Action. Neither has the range you can get on a bright, clear, still day from the AR but both will do alot of other things well. The collapsible stock adds nothing to accuracy but a good trigger group will. Just my 2 cents worth. Please take no offense as none is meant.
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no offense taken at all, what sort of "hard use" goodies do force recon get that adds to reliabilty in harsh terrrain?
 
gadgetgeek said:
...not much more power in a .223 than a .22lr. twice the velocity, same bullet size.
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You are totally ignorant of the capability of .223 and I cannot imagine someone making this sort of statement being knowledgeable about firearms at all.

I come from a long line of people on both sides of the family that have done marvelous things with .22 Long Rifle. I have never hunted illegally but my Mother's side of the family feels as though it is a necessity, perhaps not now, but as close as 18 years ago. My Dad hunted deer with a .22 and just about everything else when he was a boy during The Great Depression. Shotgun shells were a luxury and if he had a centerfire rifle it was a .300 Savage although I don't know if he had that when he was that young...but centerfire ammunition was too expensive for him and his family at that time. He trapped muskrat and hunted/trapped coon and clubbed skunks for ammunition and money for shoes.

I would not feel comfy-cozy with a .223 bolt gun and a bear in front of me but by God if you have a semi-auto and a 20 or 30 rounder stashed in the pack and you can't get it done, you need to be in bear scat I guess. :D
 
With a .223 you would need to head-shoot rabbit sized game or risk destroying the meat. I generally try and do that anyway, even when I am hunting with my snubnosed .22 revolver. I would rather use a .22 rimfire magnum for a survival gun. You can get a variety of bullet types and it is a lightweight round. You could pack 200 rounds without significant weight. It will easily take deer sized game if you place your shots. I would rather be trying to head shoot a deer than relying on head shooting rabbits.
 
An Ar15 platform makes for a nice general purpose/survival rifle I think. If you add a 22 conversion kit you get the performance of two rifles in one :) I use a Ceiner 22 kit in my Bushmaster and it runs 100% reliable and shoots the same point of aim out to around 50 meters. That's the farthest I have shot paper targets with the 22 kit. I can easily hit minute of pop can at 100 meters though. Yeah I would agree the 223 isn't perfect bison, moose, or grizz medicine but up to 30 in a mag will do the trick if the situation dictates. Proper first shot placement would bag an elephant though as long as you do your part. Add to that, that ammo is still relatively cheap (when compared to other centerfire rifle ammo) and plentiful.....yeah I think the AR is a nice survival rifle :)
 
What about small/medium sized game such as groundhogs, possum, or racoons? would the .223 destroy the majority of whats edible in these animals? all three of these are more than plentiful here in WV. We also have an abundance of wild turkey (both the whiskey and the bird:D)
 
It seems that survival here is "wilderness survival". I know that everyone realizes that you may need something for urban survival or survival after some event which causes at least a temporary lapse in security. Katrina or a very large regional earthquake comes to mind. So, in this survival scenario, the 223 would be a great round for both hunting or defense.

I wonder sometimes about the ability of the AR platform to preform without lots of cleaning and care on a regular basis. From that standpoint, the Mini 14 seems to be a reasonably good alternative. A good bolt action 223 might also work quite well for most scenarios.

I still prefer a 22LR, but the 22WMR has distinct advantages (the least of which is cost of ammunition). The 223 offers more power and defensive capabilities.
 
WVHILLS said:
no offense taken at all, what sort of "hard use" goodies do force recon get that adds to reliabilty in harsh terrrain?
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look up the m16a4 with specs from any of the sites that can give you info on it-some people in the know have mentioned Alcan sighting systems, keeping the colt dust cover and an m203 if the need arises. :cool:

Also look up gg and g for all types of field tested niceties.

Keep it clean and it'll keep you alive.
 
The shortest, lightest .223 caliber AR-15 you can legally own is at its best as an urban antipersonnel carbine.
 
.223 is a decent fighting round, and a great predator and varmint round, and if you know how to use, with the right load, a round capable of taking deer.

Get a Ceiner conversion kit. That will allow you to shoot .22 LR- this will afford you more practice (.223/5.56 ball isn't as cheap as it used to be). It could also be useful for small game hunting.
 
mp510 said:
Get a Ceiner conversion kit. That will allow you to shoot .22 LR- this will afford you more practice (.223/5.56 ball isn't as cheap as it used to be). It could also be useful for small game hunting.
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Great advice, and I plan on getting another one as well. Black Dog Machine (LLC) makes some great full-size magazines that work with the Ciener as well...but either way the .22 LR conversion is great for plinking, practice and will easily take squirrels at 25-30 yards.

Just returned from 14+ months in the sandbox, and the M4 is alive and well and doing great. Best thing about that platform is that you can easily go from .22 LR (Ciener in the .223 barrel) up to .458 SOCOM or even .50 Beowulf for some real punch; but more importantly uppers in 6.8 Remington/SPC and the 6.5mm Grendel are excellent rounds with a little more weight and power further out than .223. Just add another upper/bolt (maybe a few magazines if needed) and choice of optics and you have a great modular gun that can plink, do CQB, reach out to .308 distances or stop stampeding buses.

I would strongly recommend the .22 conversion for practice. As far as effectiveness of the .223, if you practice and are accurate, it will be more than enough for 99% of game/threats in the lower 48 out to 250-300 meters. Depending on the state, it may be an issue for hunting, but that's where a good upgrade/addition to 6.Xmm comes in handy.

Plenty of options and a good choice. There's a lot of opinionated debates on caliber, action, penetration, etc., but from my experience, if you can accurately hit your target, a .22 LR is more than adequate.

Buy ammo, enough magazines, a few spare parts and plenty of range time...enjoy and Happy Holidays!

ROCK6
 
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