319 Rancher dating

bertl

bertl

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Feb 17, 2011
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I recently got a 319 Rancher, NIB with papers. According to 300Bucks model history writeup, this is a 1st version from 1975-1990. I'm trying to pin the date down a little more. One of the papers is a Buck ad for videos from the Eagle Heritage Video Collection. The videos include "The Secluded World of the Mule Deer" by Mike Mathiot, "Mysterious Lair of the Predator" and "Winds of Change - Preserving the Heritage of Man" narrated by James Whitmore. A little searching shows these videos were first released in early 1987. I don't know when Buck got involved. From the video ad, I am guessing the knife was produced no earlier than 1987 (maybe 1986).

Does anyone know how long Buck included the video add in the box? Was it only a year or was it longer? That information might bracket possible dates for the knife.

Bert
 
The first model 319 was manufactured in 1975-1990, and the second was manufactured from 1990-1992 when it was discontinued. The first model had the high carbon spiral awe and the second model had the smooth. So, your 319 being the first model could have been manufactured anywhere between 1975 thru 1990.
 
Bert,

I am no source for that paper info. I think everyone will agree with this broad statment: Buck used the same insert papers over a number of years. That said I would be cautious in using that insert for the exact year. Maybe a couple one way or the other.

On the little things we see in the way the old 300 knives were made, we have to remember those were in the Camillus contract Buck "family" era. And some of those little details are caused by the hand assembly that was occurring at Camillus. One of the old 300 issues we have debated for a long time were the differences in the nail nic cut-outs in certain models. I say with firm belief that the differences were just the way the operator felt that day and don't feel it's a big deal and don't make much issue of it. Anyway I can't help on the papers your talking about, but I applaud your detective work effort.........300Bucks
 
I don't the date ether,but congrats on a great fine,really like that model with the spiral awl.
 
I guess I should clarify something. I am not trying to make a generalization about the dates for the 319 1st version. 300Bucks and MB have given that information. I just thought that the video paper might narrow the date down for this particular knife. I think I'll be content thinking of it in the period 1985 - 1990. That puts it in the last five years of production for the 319 1st version.
 
It's difficult to nail down a specific year of manufacture, when a company doesn't use a date code or other identifying marks to distinguish years of production and they don't make any changes to the knife. The dates on paperwork can never be used cause they used the same stuff for decades and if they found a pile lying in the corner that they didn't use, they used it. It might be better to do some detective work on the Camillus forum, being it is that they made the knife and there is a few X employees over there. I had a question that one guy answered and he had the actual contract to prove his statement. Great source of info.
 
Matt, thanks for the info. I guess I didn't state things very well. The dates for the videos are not on the Buck add. I checked on the Internet and found that most of the videos were not completed and released until early 1987 so it wouldn't make sense to have an ad for them in 1980 for example. To me that means that the earliest date for this particular knife would be 1987 (maybe 1985 if there was a backlog of inventory from Camillus). I agree that the knife could be from any time after 1985-87. It really doesn't matter to me. My guess is that there is no difference in a 319 made in 1983 versus 1990. I just thought this was one case where paperwork might actually indicate the earliest year of production for a particular knife, and you are right, it doesn't help establish if this knife was made in any later year.
 
This is just for fun thought. I think I am correct in thiniking the awl blades backside grooves were hand ground. If we were in the early 90's and knew someone in the factory to talk to I wonder if we could tell who made the actual knife by the way they ground the grooves.......some are slightly different if you put 4 or 5 in your hand......ha But it will be just another of those who knows. Bert you might email Joe Houser on the videos and see if he could easily find something. But don't expect a quick answer. Those awl blades will rust if not kept clean.........300
 
I think I am correct in thiniking the awl blades backside grooves were hand ground. If we were in the early 90's and knew someone in the factory to talk to I wonder if we could tell who made the actual knife by the way they ground the grooves.......some are slightly different if you put 4 or 5 in your hand...
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- 300

Talk about opening a can of worms! My simple question about the date of the video ad was bad enough. I can just see everyone comparing the grooves and saying, "Well, Tom did these and he worked here from 1983 to 1987, and these grooves were definitely done by Dick who worked from 1985 to 1990, and Harry is dead, but his grandson says these grooves were sure done by him between 1976 and 1980..."

Bert
 
I should never have stopped working on a report I'm trying to write. 300bucks really got me distracted. I made the one comment, but now I'm imagining we could tell by looking at the grooves if one of the workers was right handed or left handed - sort of like dextrorotary and levorotary molecules in biochemistry. I guess I'll do almost anything to keep from working today; knives are more fun than this report. Luckily it's on my own time.
 
bertl said:
I think I'll be content thinking of it in the period 1985 - 1990. That puts it in the last five years of production for the 319 1st version.
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So, a Camillus made Rancher (1986-1990) did not have a date code on the blade?
 
So, a Camillus made Rancher (1986-1990) did not have a date code on the blade?
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There is no date code. My understanding is that none of the Camillus made 300s used a date code.
 
Just to mess with Bert somemore........and because we sort of are dicussing such issues,

Camillus made Smoky Mountain Knife Works special order knives don't have model numbers....ever noticed that. Will just say BUCK, U.S.A. . Such as Jumbo Trapper. And a couple more that don't come immediately to mind... So never fear we will go down the knowledge road together.......300
 
Camillus made Smoky Mountain Knife Works special order knives don't have model numbers....ever noticed that.
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300
Thanks for the info. I never noticed that, but then I've never looked. The older I get, the more I learn. Unfortunately the older I get, the more I forget.

Bert
 
Just to add to Craigs list of SMKW knives, are the 331 and 332 the Grandaddy Barlow and the small barlow (yellow, black and jigged bone), and the 322 Congress both in black and yellow.
 
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