4 types of edge damage/deformation: pics

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Jun 22, 2003
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since theres been a few threads describing "chipped busse's", i thought it approapriate to post a thread that showed 4 common types of edge deformation and damage, the dent, the mash, the roll, and the chip. the first three can be steeled out in most cases, and the 4th is pretty much unfixable, except for regrinding that section of the edge geometry.

the two blades i used for the pictures are a super cheap set of throwers, i assume made of 420, wich can be bent (very very easily) in the hands. their basically butter soft. the second (the chipped blade) is a himalayan imports 20" sirupati. i beleive that i hit that section on a small rock while cutting up branches in a garbage can. the fact that it chipped shows that that area is of high hardness (for 5160/spring steel).

1: edge dent.
an edge dent is where something hits the edge at an angle, and moves a small section of the edge to the right or left, misaligning that portion. no metal is removed in this action, and it can be steeled out, basically bumping it back into alignment. an edge dent can be very very small, to a degree that its dificult to see wether or not the edge has been pushed over, or mashed down.
edge-dent-1.jpg


edge-dent-edgeview-2.jpg


edge-dent-otherside-3.jpg



2: an edge mash.
an edge mash is when you hit something dead on, like a peice of metal, or a rock, that causes teh metal to push into itself, mushrooming out the sides. this can be pushed back into form with steeling, though this is harder to do then with a dent. no metal is removed in this deformation. in the case of this cheap thower - the mash is bad enough that it actually split the metal that was mushroomed out. a better/harder steel wouldnt have dont that, this stuff is just really, really, REALLY soft. to cause this mash i hit the edge on the back of another knife.

edge-mash-edge-view-1.jpg


edge-mash-side-2.jpg


the other side - mushroomed out on both sides of the blade
edge-mash-otherside-3.jpg
 
3: rolled edge.
this is where your slicing something, and you run a length of the blade across a hard object, like a metal wire, a nail, or a rock. it causes what is essentially an edge dent, but over a long area of the edge. again, no metal is removed in this deformation, and it can be steeled out.


rolled-edge.jpg


4: edge chip
this is the type of damage that jerry says he has never seen occur in one of his blades. this is where you hit your edge on something hard, and it actually cracks out a peice of the blade. when this happenes, ther eis actually a chunk of metal missing from the edge, wich can cause an area that is prone to cracking in the rest of the blade if its bad enough. the only way to fix this type of damage is to sharpen the geometry of the edge/blade past the missing metal. in differentially heat treated blades, the chip can sometimes be so bad that it goes past the hardened poriton of the edge and goes into the softer spine area of the knife.
infi will have the tendancy to do one of the previous three forms of deformation before it chips out. this is do to a high degree of mealiability at high hardness. its a similar effect to whats seen in softer steels.

edge-chip-edgeview-1.jpg.w560h422.jpg


edge-chip-side-view-2.jpg


edge-chip-from-afar-2.jpg


edge-chip-super-close-4.jpg


note that there is no deformation around the missing section of blade. i assume that this is do to the matrix of the steel being unable to compound down (very rigid), and having a line of molecules that made that segment prone to fracturing. this blade is zone hardened, so the spine, tip, and front of the blade is soft, where as the "sweet spot" is hard, so that even if it chips super bad, the blade itself is much more likely to survive.

ive never seen a busse blade recieve this kind of damage, and i dont really expect to.
 
if you get a box with a red x in it, you might have to right click on the image and press "show image" to get them to show up.
 
Thanks for taking the time to inform us "laymen" on various types of damage to knife edges.

Your photography is excellent.

Your explanations are clear.

Much appreciated.
 
If a blade is particuarly thin, and the dent large, most of the realingment can be done with a tiny hammer and anvil. I accidentally hit a steel pole while cutting light brush with my Opinel No. 12. I used the flat face of my itty bitty 4 Oz crosspeen hammer and a jewlers anvil to tap out the dent. Came out good as new.
 
id really like to get a set up like that, because i dont have a good place to clamp my knives down for heavy burnishing (like steeling, but with heavy pressure). and it just feels plain dangerous to try to hold an 18" ang khola between my knees while trying to pressure out a mashed edge :eek:
 
Thanks for taking the time to put this together! May I recommend a sticky on this one. One of Busse's selling point is the inability to chip out and this would definitely go a long way in clearing the air for rookies not truly knowing the difference or how to correct these problems.
 
im still kind of new to the maintanance of edge deformation myself, and i think that its worth a thread of its own. id love to see someone who's been doing it for a few years give a good explanation on basic burnishing and steeling techniques.
 
Excellent pics, Seth. Thanks for taking the time to shoot those at various angles, too.

SethMurdoc said:
im still kind of new to the maintanance of edge deformation myself, and i think that its worth a thread of its own. id love to see someone who's been doing it for a few years give a good explanation on basic burnishing and steeling techniques.
Here's a primer from the HandAmerican website: http://www.handamerican.com/steeluse.html They also make outstanding smooth and fine grooved steels (I have a 14" half & half) and Keith really stands behind his products.

It's also worth noting that when the edge rips (last two pics of first post), further pounding at that area may cause catastrophic crack propagation and subsequent blade fracture.
 
Great info. Now we can all pretend we know what we're talking about... :D
 
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