$400 to spend on a .22 pistol...

Macchina

Macchina

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I have $400 to spend on a .22 pistol out the door. I like the Ruger Mark III's (or II's), but don't know what variation to get (Hunter, Bull, Competition, Target, Standard). Is the barrel the only difference between the Bull and the Regular? What makes the hunter special?

This gun will be used 50/50 for plinking at the range and hunting squirrels. I want to stick with open sights, but may go to a red dot or upgraded sights if need be.

Please recommend me a Mark III variation, or a completely different brand of .22 autoloader.
 
Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_III says it well:

Changes from the Mark II

Addition of a visible loaded chamber indicator on the left side.

Magazine release moved, from bottom of grip to behind triggerguard.

All Mark III pistols with adjustable sights are drilled and tapped for a Weaver-style scope base which ships with the pistol.

A new magazine disconnect prevents the pistol from being fired with the magazine removed from the pistol.

An internal safety lock has been added. Using a key, the safety can be locked in the "safe" position.

Shorter tapered bolt ears

---Mark III
The first is simply known as Mark III. The pistol's receiver and barrel are made from a single piece of steel, with a layout similar to the Luger P08.

The high-end model is known as the Hunter. This pistol features a stainless steel frame and 6.875-inch fluted bull barrel, fiber-optic front sight, adjustable rear sights, and half-checkered Cocobolo grip. It features multiple safety mechanisms, and includes a visible loaded chamber indicator (The first ever included in a .22 rimfire pistol) as well as internal and external keyed locks provided.

The next pistol in the lineup is named Competition. It too has a stainless steel frame and 6.875-inch bull barrel, and adjustable rear sights; the pistol also has the Cocobolo grip.

Target is the next Mark III. This pistol has a blued finish, a tapered 6.875-inch barrel, and adjustable rear sights.

The Bull barrel pistol comes in stainless steel or blued finish. It has a heavier barrel to help the barrel from overheating and to keep recoil down. It has a 5.5-inch barrel and adjustable rear sights.

Finally, the Standard Mark III has a tapered barrel, black plastic handgrips and a blued finish. It comes with either a 6-inch or 4.75-inch barrel. It has fixed sights.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_III for model number grid spreadsheet.

______________

Although they held that specific niche market captive for years, with the higher priced spread provided by High Standard, there have been some recent new players in the market.

Look also at the Beretta Neos, S&W M22... among others.
 
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Don't rule out used .22lr pistols. I have shot 20year old .22 semi auto's that were as accurate as the day they came from the factory.

There are fewer things to check for when buying used compared to a center fire semi-auto. Look at magazine functioning and hold open after last shot if you can get the chance to shoot the gun before buying it.

The money you could save will buy your good optics if you so desire plus a lot of ammo for practice.

I have had the MkII Ruger and also shot the S&W Model 41 and a few High Standards and all are more accurate can most shooters will ever need. Try and find the one that feels the best and points the most natural.

If I was going to get a .22 semi auto I would be thinking of a 1911A1 style Kimber but it is sadly out of your price $400 range.
 
.22 rifles and pistols never die, people kill them. you can probably get a used pistol and rifle for about $150-200.
 
-I'm looking around town for a used Ruger Mark II, I'll be happy with about any bull barrel model. If I can't find a nice used one, I'm going to try for one of these. Getting pretty pumped about this guy, but I have a few questions:

How is the blueing/rust resistance on the Ruger blued models? I have mostly blued guns, and have experienced rust on several occasions while hunting. Surface rust is easily cleaned off and the Rugers appear to be pretty polished. I will most likely be carrying this gun while hiking, but I have my CPL, so I can stow it in my pack if it rains.

-Any difference in accuracy between the bull barrel and standard barrel models?

-How are the factory sights on the Mark III's?
 
I can get a Stainless Hunter (5.5" fluted bull barrel and cocobolo grips) for $460. How does that price sound?
 
there are two different Hunter models that you may be describing- the MkIII or the MkIII 22/45

The factory sights are as good as any adjustable pistol sight can get.

A properly maintained gun, blued or SS, should not be an issue if it rains. "Surface rust" should not be allowed to occur, but "removing it" will leave a mark.

Why ask for a heavy barrel and then spend extra money fluting it... that makes it lighter? The point:

The only difference that adds accuracy to the "Bull" barrel is it's weight. The heavier barrel moves less while you are operating it. A lighter gun can move more. That is what makes a heavier gun (barrel) "more accurate".

The 512 is an industry standard. I buy a lot of stuff off of www.GunBroker.com

Reality Check your prices there.
 
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My recommendation as a gunsmith and long time competition shooter---go with a Ruger Mk II or III. You can pick up Mk IIs and IIIs at the gunshows around my area in the three to four hundred range. They are trouble free, super accurate, and last forever. As far as rust goes, wipe a little oil on it before you go hunting, also keep a few dry patches and one or two slightly oily ones in your possibles pack.

I have a ten inch MK II and a 5 and 7/8 inch Mk III and love them both. Got the III for $325 just a month ago at a local gunshow. And, no kidding, I win some fair money from time to time shooting with the 10 inch Mk II at 500 yards. Lately, though, my 'rep' has spread and it's getting harder to find 'suckers' willing to bet! I do it with open sights, standing, and two handed grip. The 10 inch Mk II will actually shoot that far and accurately enough to nail a five gallon plastic bucket if you know how. If interested, ask and I'll explain the technique---my hobby of long distance handgun shooting goes back 60 plus years.
 
I have a Stainless MKII with a 5 7/8 " bull barrel. I love the gun. Very reliable and super accurate and the price is reasonable. I have an aimdot type scope on mine. The only down side is that it takes a while to get the hang of the reassembly after cleaning. The more you do it the easier it gets. Go for it, it's a great deal.

Regards

Shike
 
Old CW4 said:
My recommendation as a gunsmith and long time competition shooter---go with a Ruger Mk II or III. You can pick up Mk IIs and IIIs at the gunshows around my area in the three to four hundred range. They are trouble free, super accurate, and last forever. As far as rust goes, wipe a little oil on it before you go hunting, also keep a few dry patches and one or two slightly oily ones in your possibles pack.

I have a ten inch MK II and a 5 and 7/8 inch Mk III and love them both. Got the III for $325 just a month ago at a local gunshow. And, no kidding, I win some fair money from time to time shooting with the 10 inch Mk II at 500 yards. Lately, though, my 'rep' has spread and it's getting harder to find 'suckers' willing to bet! I do it with open sights, standing, and two handed grip. The 10 inch Mk II will actually shoot that far and accurately enough to nail a five gallon plastic bucket if you know how. If interested, ask and I'll explain the technique---my hobby of long distance handgun shooting goes back 60 plus years.
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I have shot my 6" MK II at 100 yards at a 12 oz pepsi can and hit but I would be interested in your technique. Thanks
 
Unfortunately, a bit more pricey, but the Hi Standard is probably considered THE STANDARD, in .22 LR semi-auto pistols. I have several, and am partial to the Supermatic Citation Military. I'd save some more pennies and see if I could find a good one on gunbroker.com.
 
A comment about cleaning guns, especially handguns. Generally, people clean them too much! I've seen a lot of guns damaged by too much 'detail stripping' to really clean them. It ain't necessary! With 22s shooting copper jacket bullets, you can go 1,000 (ONE THOUSAND) rounds between detail cleanings. With plain lead bullets, 500. After extensive shooting, lock the slide back and swab the barrel with bore cleaner, followed by a few strokes with a bore brush. Use a few dry patches until one comes out clean and finish with one stroke of a VERY lightly oiled patch. Use an old toothbrush to clearn around the chamber area and brush out the mag well. Then apply just a scant drop of oil where parts slide or move.

Excessive oil traps grit and turns the lube into valve grinding compound. I do not recommend WD40 for interior lube of guns because it dries to a waxy substance that traps grit. WD means 'moisture displacement' and it's okay for the exterior but not the innards. The exception with WD40 is in the event you and gun get soaked in a rainstorm, fall into water, etc. In that case, flood the gun with it as a rust preventative, then strip, dry, and clean thoroughly when you get a chance.

In regard to Ruger handguns, recommend you don't remove the mainspring and separate barrel from frame unless absolutely necessary. Do this enough and you looseen up the front 'catch' fitting and wind up with a barrel assembly that acquires a wiggle. Not good.

As a gunsmith, I'm fairly typical in rarely cleaning my guns. Only when they're so filthy I'm ashamed of them or when the forcing cone of one of my large caliber revolvers gets so leaded accuracy starts to fall off. I know, I shoudn't do it but what can I say? I clean enough guns for customers without futzing around with my own. Please remember though, folks, I also see too many guns damnaged by too frequent and too thorough cleaning.
 
shike said:
The only down side is that it takes a while to get the hang of the reassembly after cleaning. The more you do it the easier it gets.
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I never did master it ...but as I agree with not needing to clean .22lr's after using only lead projectiles, I only had to get a more mechanically orientated friend to do it twice a year.:o
 
Someone asked me for some pointers re long distance handgunning so here goes.

1. Learn trigger squeeze! If you know when your gun will fire, you are NOT squeezing correctly, you are jerking the trigger! You should always be surprised when your gun goes BANG! Those are the shots that hit. Learn to squeeze even for rapid and double action firing.
2. Handgun shake. Everyone has it. No one can hold a handgun still without using a solid rest. How do you overcome shake? Learn to ignore it! If you'll analyze your shake, the entire gun is 'jiggling' with your muscle/nerve movement. It may appear to you that you're waving the muzzle in a large arc or circle. You're really not and the shake, if not excessive, doesn't move the bullet more than an inch or so at 50 yards. Therefore, relax and keep your approximate sight picture at six o'clock on the target and concentrate on trigger squeeze. I regularly shoot a pair of 45-70 revolvers shooting 405 grain bullets with rather horrendous powder charges (52 grains of IMR 4320). I can do about 15 rounds before that inner voice, which I've learned to listen to, says 'hey, stupid, this is enough for now. Quit and go to something mild like a full bore 44 mag.' Anyway, the big revolvers are heavy and I also have to force myself to not anticipate the recoil which does hurt a tad. If I can do that at age 75, so can you. When I have one of the monsters up and I'm squeezing, the little 'mantra' in my head says over and over, 'trigger squeeze, trigger squeeze.' Then the damned cannon goes off and I'm almost always pleased with the result.
3. The sight picture for long range shooting. This is critical! Many handgun shooters will sight a distant target and then raise the entire handgun and thus cover up the target in an attempt to 'luck' the bullet somewhere near what you're shooting at. Try this, keep the top of your front sight at six o'clock on the target as you normally would but LOWER your rear sight. You'll quickly learn how far down to lower the rear sight in relation to the front for various ranges. I mentioned before that I shoot a 10" Ruger Mk II regularly at 500 yards. To do that, I have the rear sight lowered until I'm at the base of the front sight. However, I can still see the target and keep both sights aligned with each other and the target. The average human eye does a fantastic job of lining things up so relax and let your natural abilities come into play. I know this technique is a bit hard to explain but try it and you'll instantly understand the method.
4. The grip. This is a 'touchy' area to get into with lots of folks but here I go. The proper grip is attained when you bring your gun hand around until the sight plane of the gun is in line with the your forearm bone. Only the tip of your trigger finger should be on the trigger and the rest of that finger is completely clear of the gun. This enables you to pull the trigger by only moving the trigger finger from the middle joint. Thus you do not 'milk'
the gun. I shoot all revolvers with my gunhand thumb all the way around and pressing again the rear of the cylinder shroud. This gives me the correct grip and also soaks up recoil since your thumb is the strongest part of your hand. For autos, my hand is still twised around more than most people think normal so just that tip of my trigger finger touches the trigger. In this case, my shooting thumb is extended to the side and NOT clasped down over the second finger in the usual 'plough handle' style grip. Why stick out the thumb to the side? Because it tightens the web and muscles between your thumb and forefinger and gives the auto a more soild base to recoil into. Hey, no more 'stovepipes' and your ejected rounds will fly off much further than before. You can prove this with your bare hand. Just feel the area between thumb and forefinger in a relaxed position. Soft, isn't it? Then extend the thumb to the side and notice how the web area tightens up. This type of grip also brings your natural pointing reflex back into play. With the grip correct, you'll be able to look at any object, in any direction, whip up the handgun, and it will be aligned on the target. This alone can save your behind when TSHTF. Practice the proper grip and the 'whip up' and confirm it's correct by checking your sights. Learn to do this instinctively and you'll be amazed how well you can 'snap shoot' without sights.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking with it. It's served me well for more than 60 years. If any of you try this and it works for you, please let me know. Regards to all.
 
100% pick a ruger. I have a Mark1 target barrel. it starts bull, but tapers a bit toward the end. Not pencil thin, but it is lighter than a bull. It is damn accurate. I have had that gun for 20 years, and I bought it well used. I don't know how old it is, but I can tell you that I have put probably in excess of 50,000 rounds through that bad boy. Never had anything on to break.

My dad has a 10 inch bull mark 2. That is a bit much for walking around.

My brother's mark III government model with a slab side bull cuts the difference. Lighter than a full bull.

They are just so dang built.

I will take mine to the grave. I keep waiting to shoot the barrel out. Every time I take it out shooting it gets at least 545 rounds through it (you know those bulk boxes of federal jacketed hollow points). Sometimes it gets two of those bulk pacs in one sitting. That is a lot of thumb busting. Still all the original clips etc.

I would probably pick the 6 1/2 to 7 inch bull. The government model is a great one. Stainless with scope rings if you decide to go that rout. Mine is not scoped, my dad's is not scoped (the 10 inch bull barrel). My brother put a scope on his government model. both have their advantages. I have killed a lot of rabbits and many many rock chucks with my 7 1/2 inch target mark I
 
michaelmcgo said:
I have $400 to spend on a .22 pistol out the door. I like the Ruger Mark III's (or II's), but don't know what variation to get (Hunter, Bull, Competition, Target, Standard). Is the barrel the only difference between the Bull and the Regular? What makes the hunter special?

This gun will be used 50/50 for plinking at the range and hunting squirrels. I want to stick with open sights, but may go to a red dot or upgraded sights if need be.

Please recommend me a Mark III variation, or a completely different brand of .22 autoloader.
Click to expand...

Ruger Mark II 5.5" Bull Barrel with a Red Dot scope. I have one and no one in the family ever misses with it. My 18 year old has claimed possesion of it after many years of fun on the range. She's been shooting since she was 7. It's fun to shoot ammo is cheap and it don't intimidate the kids. Mine has never broken down in ten years and thousands of rounds. Get stainless if you don't like to clean alot.:D
 
Old CW4 said:
Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking with it. It's served me well for more than 60 years. If any of you try this and it works for you, please let me know. Regards to all.
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Many thanks for the 'tips' ...as an ex-bullseye shooter of almost 20years standing (and a bit of sitting and lying down) your comments make excellent points for new and old shooters alike. :thumbup: :D
 
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