4116 Krupp?

[afishhunter]

Which of the 440 series is 4116 Krupp closest to?
Or, is it closer to 420HC?

I read one "authority" (note quotes) somewhere that 4116 Krupp is in the 440A class. Another "authority" (note quotes) claims the 440C class, and yet another that it is closest to 420HC when properly heat treated and it has good edge geometry in all three cases.

I have a Cold Steel Kudu and Eland that have a 4116 blade, and I think one or more of my Cold Steel machettes have the 4116 blade steel as well.

I'd like to get a good 440C blade (the ones I had back in the 60's and 70's sucked. Back then it seemed everything from a "$1.59 Gas Station No Name Special" to name brands had "440C" on the tang stamp.
I was not impressed with any of them.

If the 4116 used by Cold Steel in/on the Kudu and Eland is "the same" as a good 440C blade, I'll spend the money on a couple Mora, Opinel or maybe a CS "Pendelton Lite" and "Canadian Belt Knife" instead.

For the record, I've had zero problems with the Kudu and Eland as far as edge retention and ease of sharpening are concerned.
(Keeping them from departing my pocket unexpectedly is another story ... I believe in the future both will be deligated to either backpack or Sporran carry.)

Thanks in advance.

 

[Alberta Ed]

It's a low-end, German-produced steel comparable to 440A. You can go to Knife Steel FAQ (http://www.zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml and compare its composition to other steels.

 

[Larrin]

It's not really in either of those "classes." It has a bit more carbon and chromium than 420HC, plus Mo and V. And it has less carbon and chromium than 440A. It is its own thing.

 

[sv4]

1.4116 is German steel widely used for kitchen knives & cutlery. Victorinox uses this for their kitchen knives sets too, we have one. Very very stainless, edge holding is not great but easy to sharpen. Serves it's purpose for kitchen usage.

 

[herisson]

I have a whole bunch of Cold Steel's budget knives in 4116. They were my first dedicated kitchen knives set. I was and am still very pleasantly surprised by their performance. I use them now mainly to hand to non-knife people who will forcibly cut into the plate, stab into the bottom of glass jars or keep on cutting while already full on the board... I must say, they hold up well, keep a sharp edge for quite a time and are a breeze to sharpen. And of course, never a rust spot even if I let them soak in the sink. The top two are full flat ground and I still use them on a regular base. The smallies below are fun knives which let you try out a pattern for a very modest price. Only thing I don't like about them is the partial grind.

 

[dirc]

I'd hardly call 4116 'low end'... as far as the older gen regular ss goes, it's *somewhat* similar with 420hc and others with similar compositions
generally these 0.5% carbon stainless types (generic 5cr15mov etc) are easy to sharpen, which is also it's only real negative point, ie, edge retention

if it wasn't a good all around choice, henckels (aka zwilling) and half of the european cutlers wouldn't still be using it

 

[afishhunter]

I have a whole bunch of Cold Steel's budget knives in 4116. They were my first dedicated kitchen knives set. I was and am still very pleasantly surprised by their performance. I use them now mainly to hand to non-knife people who will forcibly cut into the plate, stab into the bottom of glass jars or keep on cutting while already full on the board... I must say, they hold up well, keep a sharp edge for quite a time and are a breeze to sharpen. And of course, never a rust spot even if I let them soak in the sink. The top two are full flat ground and I still use them on a regular base. The smallies below are fun knives which let you try out a pattern for a very modest price. Only thing I don't like about them is the partial grind.

The CS "Canadian Belt Knife" and the "Pendelton Lite" are both "on my radar."
I might order a pair in the next month or three.

 

[afishhunter]

Oops. Double Post.
Sorry

 

[Frotier76]

Which of the 440 series is 4116 Krupp closest to?
Or, is it closer to 420HC?

I read one "authority" (note quotes) somewhere that 4116 Krupp is in the 440A class. Another "authority" (note quotes) claims the 440C class, and yet another that it is closest to 420HC when properly heat treated and it has good edge geometry in all three cases.

I have a Cold Steel Kudu and Eland that have a 4116 blade, and I think one or more of my Cold Steel machettes have the 4116 blade steel as well.

I'd like to get a good 440C blade (the ones I had back in the 60's and 70's sucked. Back then it seemed everything from a "$1.59 Gas Station No Name Special" to name brands had "440C" on the tang stamp.
I was not impressed with any of them.

If the 4116 used by Cold Steel in/on the Kudu and Eland is "the same" as a good 440C blade, I'll spend the money on a couple Mora, Opinel or maybe a CS "Pendelton Lite" and "Canadian Belt Knife" instead.

For the record, I've had zero problems with the Kudu and Eland as far as edge retention and ease of sharpening are concerned.
(Keeping them from departing my pocket unexpectedly is another story ... I believe in the future both will be deligated to either backpack or Sporran carry.)

Thanks in advance.

4116 is modeled after a former American steel called 425M or 425 Modified. 425M was a specific cutlery steel that was designed by Cyclops Steel of Pittsburgh, PA. The steel was created for Buck Knives as an easier to blank competitor to 440A. When Cyclops Steel went under in the late 80's I guess the remainder stock was used up by the early 90's. At that point Latrobe developed 420HC as an effort to compete against Japan's 420j2. N680 by Bohler is a similar steel based off of 425M but with nitrogen added for higher rust resistance.