420 Steel?

GSackett

GSackett

Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
29
While reading the recent Cold Steel opinion-fest, I noticed several posters bashing the quality of 420 blades.

Not being too familiar with the steel, I was just wondering what specifically was wrong with it?

I recently (about a month ago) bought my wife a new Kershaw Scallion which has a 420 blade. She just loves this knife. Carries it everywhere. She wanted something smaller than her Benchmade 720 because maternity clothing is apparently short on pockets. Anyway, while I realize that the blade will probably need to be resharpened regularly, it seems to be sharp enough for her common uses, and the knife was pretty inexpensive. She is never going to use it to skin a deer or split wood for a fire or pry open a car door. So why is 420 so bad for an inexpensive knife with a short blade that isn't going to see use harder than opening a few boxes, and a variety of other household chores?

Please enlighten me...

Greg
 
No, it is fine for that. Its main drawback is a lower hardness than most other cutlery steels which means the edge will roll faster and thus blunt quicker, but this is only a factor if the knife is used either really heard or extensively. For light and/or occasional use it works fine, and is very corrosion resistant so non-knife familiar people tend to respond to it well as a "stainless" steel, as many of the other cutlery steels with that description like ATS-3 can spot easily even in humid weather.

-Cliff
 
AISI 420 is the base steel, 420HC has more carbon (a variable amount) and can thus get harder and stronger.

-Cliff
 
I think Cold Steel is using 420HC which is not too bad. This is what Buck uses and works pretty well between 56 and 58 RC hardness. 420HC is considered a bit inferior to AUS-8. I don't think you'd notice much difference. What people really don't want is regular 420 (aka 420-J2) which is much softer and is used by some makers.
 
I have not used Cold Steels 420 Sub Zero Quenched steel,but i have used Buck´s 420 HC steel.I have a Buck Special 119,and i have only good things to say about it.It is hardened to Rockwell 58.The 420 HC does not hold an edge as long as for example VG-10,but it holds and edge good,is very rust resistant and is easy to resharpen.The Kershaw Scallion also has the 420HC,and i think your wife has made a good choice.The Scallion will serve her well.

Manowar
 
That brings up a good question.

If 420-J2 is heat treated to 58 Rc, and 420HC Zero Quenched is 58 Rc, would the owner even know the difference? Would the man who sharpens the knife know the difference?
 
420 (HC) is suitable for daily use and small chores. It is very easy to sharpen and can get very sharp, will not rust (easily), and doesn't cost a fortune. Depending on heat treatment and the type of 420HC (some has more carbon than others), it can be roughly compared to 440A/AUS-6. Buck's 420HC is known for its good heat treat, and is a very good steel. Cammilus and Keshaw are good too, but perhaps not quite as hard as Buck's. I have never used Cold Steel's, but I don't think there is anything wrong with it. Most people (non knife nuts)probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference between different steels. Just be sure to avoid 420-J2, which has almost no carbon at all. Unless Paul Bos treats it! I wonder how it would perform then?
 
Gentlemen,
I disagree with all the respect I can muster. I own about a dozen Buck knives that I bought before I knew better. I am not the least bit impressed with their steel, or heat treatment, compared to other commonly available knives. I have seen LOTS and LOTS of Buck knives with broken blades, and suffer edge chips and denting more than many other brands. The stuff is remarkable in that it is both soft (and yes, I can tell the difference when sharpening and using) and brittle, much like AUS-6. In short, :barf: :barf: :barf:

420 steel can range anywhere from .15 to .6 percent carbon. If it had more carbon, it would be called something else. Thus, 420 HC is most likely at the upper end of the spectrum at .6%. I'm not impressed. Considering how easily obtainable good materials are these days, it's really sad to see companies start out with junk. A steel with only .6% Carbon has it's place when extreme corrosion resistance is required, or on great big choppers that emphasize toughness over wear resistance, (and thus will not need the extra hardness) but on small knives I see no reason. By going up to even .8% C it's possible to get noticeably more performance for little extra cost.

Also, I'd like to point out another line of thinking about the best knife for your wife. If she is not really into knives, perhaps she needs a high quality knife more than you realize. She's not going to constantly sharpen that edge, is she? You don't want your wife to carry a butter knife around do you? A good blade would stay sharp longer until you could touch it up for her. What if she wants to use her knife to remove a staple from a stack of papers or something? A crappy steel such as 420 or AUS-6 will chip, break off the tip, or get a sizeable dent in the edge, whereas a good blade would be just dulled very slightly. What if she drops it on a concrete floor? A cheap blade will be chipped, broken, or again have severe edge damage (as I've seen plenty of times before), whereas a good knife will just take a chunk out of the concrete! (as I've also seen several times) In all, a better blade may be more important for someone who is less familiar with their proper use and care.
 
Originally posted by Ichabod Poser
That brings up a good question.

If 420-J2 is heat treated to 58 Rc, and 420HC Zero Quenched is 58 Rc, would the owner even know the difference? Would the man who sharpens the knife know the difference?
Click to expand...

I doubt that 420J2 has enough carbon to be hardened to 58RC.

I have found 420HC to be a decent steel and is the entry level for acceptabilty for me.
 
I think Buck's 420HC is an excellent cutlery steel in the proper application. The Bos treat propels it above any other 420 that I know of. It performs better for me than AUS 6 for example. Perhaps your poor experience with Buck knives came before you had any knowledge in proper knife application, usage, and technique as well. I'd be interested to know how many of the damaged Buck knives you speak of that Buck didn't replace gratis, regardless of the abuse and improper use. Premium steel? Nope. Overpriced? Nope. Good honest cutlery steel. Without doubt. Some people wouldn't be caught dead in a Chevy.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by the possum

Also, I'd like to point out another line of thinking about the best knife for your wife. If she is not really into knives, perhaps she needs a high quality knife more than you realize. She's not going to constantly sharpen that edge, is she? You don't want your wife to carry a butter knife around do you?
Click to expand...

She is getting very into knives actually (woohoo!)... I don't have to lie about how much my new knives cost because she understands! At the moment, her idea of sharpening knives is handing it to me, which I am happy to do. Knowing her, the more she gets into knives she will soon be doing it herself whether it needs it or not. And she does have a high quality knife (or at least decent one), a Benchmade 720 with ATS34. She picked the Kershaw due to it's size, blade shape and light weight, not the type of steel. She has thanked me for the knife just about every times she uses it when I am around, which is often. Have no fear, it will not be the last knife I get for her :D.

Thanks everyone for the info. At least I feel a little smarter now.

Greg
 
Buck's 420HC is quite good. It doesn't hold a shaving edge for as long as some of the more expensive steels, but it doesn't go really dull either. Just give it a few swipes on a ceramic stick and the thing is good to go.

n2s
 
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