420j2

[TheMightyGoat]

Does this sorry excuse for a steel actually serve a purpose, or was it only designed to fool unknowledgable knife owners into buying something cheap? All the time I see people going bugshit over some fancy-looking knife made of 420J2... they are completely oblivious of the suckyness... it makes me sad.

 

[PWork]

It seems to make a pretty good spring.

Paul

 

[TheMightyGoat]

Originally posted by PWork
It seems to make a pretty good spring.

Paul

Hmm... I guess I meant in the way of knives, but other uses are interesting too.

 

[tonybigthumbs]

the only decent things I see out of 420J2 are dive knives, which i would never use, extremely rust resistant.

 

[Keith Montgomery]

420J2 is a fine knife steel for a wall hanger.

 

[Orion]

It's also excellent for throwing knives. I have quite a few knives of 420J2. Some are better than others depending on the heat treat. It's not all that bad... don't buy the elitist hype.

Peace-
Cam

 

[Roadrunner]

Works good as a liner material too. I'll never buy anything with a 420J2 blade though.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It is one of the tougher and more ductile stainless steels, so it works decently well in really high impact and other work. Unfortunately most who use it don't tend to care about heat treatment that much so you can often see large differences in behavior. The main problem is that it is rather soft, expect 45-50 RC, so it can indent readily on hard objects. However before this totally turns you off, many machetes and other large blades are this soft, as are a lot of current "high end" blade materials such as Ti, Talonite, dendritic Cobalt (even softer), and Stellite 6k.

-Cliff

 

[Crayola]

Cliff,

I don't think it is fair to compare talonite and stellite (maybe dendridic cobalt too) with 420J2 because of their Rockwell ratings. Of course, it is the extremely hard and very anbundant carbides (vanadium, etc) in talonite that does the cutting. Though a talonite and a 420J2 blade may have the same rockwell raitings, the talonite will stomp on the 420J2 with respect to cutting. In fact, the talonite will stomp on many "good" knife steels too!

Bottom line for me with 420J2 is that no one does get it hard enough for it to perform adequately. I believe that you cannot even get it decently hard, because of the low amount of carbon. I may be wrong about that, but so far I have never seen a decently hard 420J2 blade. For a cutting knife, I won't consider 420J2. For a chopping knife, I'd probably still go with something else, as I'd use a chopper as a cutter too (khukuri, hatchet, etc. all make good licers too!)

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Crayola :

it is the extremely hard and very anbundant carbides (vanadium, etc) in talonite that does the cutting.

The carbides have no significant effect in determing cutting ability. The ability of the knife to cut is dependent on the geometry and edge particulars (edge grit finish, and percentage of coherent and perpendicular alignment). Talonite holds no inherent advantage over 420J2 in any of these attributtes. Since the hardness is similar for both, the geometry limitations are as well. The edge particulars are simply dependent on the skill of the sharpener and choice of grits.

Talonites only advantages over 420J2 (for a knife) are in regards to wear resistance and corrosion resistance. The increased corrosion resistance isn't a functional gain as how many people complain about rusting with 420J2. The larger wear resistance can be a factor on some types of materials which will grant longer edge retention, but on many common materials it isn't a factor and the similar hardness will make both go blunt at similar speeds. As edge roll is the dominate factor in a lot of blunting - which is why use of a smooth steel can have such a dramatic effect.

For a chopping knife, I'd probably still go with something else ...

So would I, but for a stainless it isn't bad, and is one of the better choices, superior to the brittle high carbon stainless ones but of course inferior to the nonstainless shock steels.

Note as well that most cutlery 420 is actually 420HC and the hardness tends to be a bit higher and can reach 58 at the extremes, but that is rare, it is usually in the low fifties.

-Cliff

 

[Manowar]

420J2 is a lamination steel. It´s great to laminate amongs a hard steel core,because it is soft and has tremendious rust resistance and flexebility. It is usually found in the 54 Rockwells like used by Cold Steel and Fallkniven for their laminated scales. For a throwing knife it is surely great,because of it softness and flexibility. Another good thing about 420J2 is that it is easy to work with and therefore also cheap.

For anything ellse than as a lamination steel,420J2 is only found on the most cheapest and poorest knives you can ever find,usually Pakistan and Taiwan low quality knives.I know of no high qualtity knife,that is made of 420J2. However, one should not confuse 420J2 with the 420HC steel,that for example Buck Knives use in their knives.420 HC stands for High Carbon and are mostly hardened to Rockwell 58,like Buck Knives.

Manowar