440A or 420A,B or C

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Felax20

Joined
Mar 2, 2011
Messages
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Im just about to buy a knife and can't deside if im going for a 440A or any of the 420A,B or C. I don't really know the difference between 440A and 420 except that 440 is harder and harder to sharpen, Can you come with personal views and opinions please. :)
 
440A is acceptable. 440C is not half bad. 420 anything is getting toward the low end. what knife are you buying?
 
If you are going to get any of these, go with 440C. in my opinion, 440A and 420 are not good at all.
 
I find that bucks 420HC is pretty decent but I really dislike 440A... However 440C is pretty good, but none of these are considered todays supersteels... If I may ask, which knives are you considering and what is the pricepoint?
 
440a is getting a bad rap that it doesn't deserve. 440a if properly heat treated can achieve a rockwell hardness of very close to 440c. I have purchased over 1000 Rough Rider knives and every one of them has come razor sharp. They hold an edge very well and sharpen easily unlike 440 c which is usually a pain in the ass to sharpen. I loaned a Rough rider knife to a hunter who dressed 3 Deer with it with a stropping on cardboard between the 2nd and 3rd Deer. I suggest you read the Rough rider thread on the traditional forum and see what people are saying about 440a. Even Bernard Levine says that 440a is a very good steel. Any steel can be bad if not heat treated properly so it depends on what you're buying.

Regards

Robin
 
As Pipeman says, it depends on the heat treat but most of the cheaper knives are made from poorly or non heat treated 440A. If it's a well known company such as Rough Rider or Buck's 420HC, then it'll be okay. If it's like MTech or something then i'd say stay away from 440A and 420.
 
I carried my Kershaw Scallion (420hc) a few years before I got a few more knives. I've been happy with it. Can easily get it very sharp. Have some kitchen knives in 420j2 (pure komachi II) and I've been very impressed with them. They would still grab hair after 2 months! And they only needed to go over the polishing wheel a few times to bring them right back.
 
Felax20 said:
Im just about to buy a knife and can't deside if im going for a 440A or any of the 420A,B or C. I don't really know the difference between 440A and 420 except that 440 is harder and harder to sharpen, Can you come with personal views and opinions please. :)
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Welcome to BladeForums!

I'm not aware of any 420A, B, or C.
-There is 420J, which has less than 0.15% Carbon and is good for Liners or handles, but not for blades.
-There is 420J2, which has ~0.3% Carbon. That's enough Carbon to get to the mid to low 50's in Rockwell Hardness, too low to interest me.
- There is 420HC, which has ~0.45% Carbon. That will get you well into the mid 50's in Rockwell hardness. Buck Knives hardens their 420HC blades to a 58, which is quite nice.

If it were I and the steel were a 420, I'd want 420HC.

-440A, as has been mentioned by Pipeman, can be hardened to the mid to high 50s. Good for a pocket knife carry.
-440C typically gets a bit harder than 440A. But in addition to hardness, there is enough carbon to form significant amounts of carbides. The carbides impart improved wear resistance, so you get better edge retention. They also make this alloy harder to sharpen than 440A or 420HC. And the edge achieved by most folks with 440C is not as fine as that achieved by most folks with any of the other alloys mentioned here.

As far as ease of sharpening:
420J2 is easier than 420HC or 440A, which are about the same. 440C, as mentioned is a bit harder to sharpen than any of the others.

If I were looking for a pocket knife, I'd be (and am) happy with 420HC or 440A. If I were looking at a hunting knife, I'd be much happier with 440C.
 
thank's for your replies everyone and let them come so i can se what others may think. as someone asked which knife i should buy its a Bowie - Master ranger. you can google it if you like to see it
 
Felax20 said:
thank's for your replies everyone and let them come so i can se what others may think. as someone asked which knife i should buy its a Bowie - Master ranger. you can google it if you like to see it
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If it's a bowie/large knife, I'd definitely go with the 440C.

- Mark
 
Be careful when buying cheaper knives. You may not be getting the steel that is advertised.
That said 440A, 440B, 440C and 420HC from a reputable manufacturer will all serve you well.

I found reference to a Herbertz Ranger Messer, which seems to be a copy of the Aitor Oso Blanco. For the same money I would consider the original.
 
Felax20 said:
Im just about to buy a knife and can't deside if im going for a 440A or any of the 420A,B or C. I don't really know the difference between 440A and 420 except that 440 is harder and harder to sharpen, Can you come with personal views and opinions please. :)
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Check out :
http://www.ennis-entrekusa.com/ (Entrek knives)
if you want to have a proper heat treated 440C stainless steel knife!
Ray Ennis seems to be dedicated!
 
In my experience: the 440C is a very good alround-steel. The 420s are all not as good, as they could be. Heavily to sharpen and doesn´t keep the edge very long. Not as it is used the 420 HC by Buck Knives...
I hope, I could help a little bit!

Kind regards...
 
Yes, you have all helped me but i have a last question, is it worth to buy a Bowie - Ranger messer/Master Ranger with 440A steel for 789 kronor (around 120 bucks)?
 
tabeeb762 said:
I found reference to a Herbertz Ranger Messer, which seems to be a copy of the Aitor Oso Blanco. For the same money I would consider the original.
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Herbertz is the second largest sporting knife manufacturer in Germany after Boker. They have a very broad line. They do not have any U.S. distribution. Some dealers may import some of the line but it really doesn't have a presence here like boker. Herbertz knives are comparable to those made by Boker.

Many German knife manufacturers including Herbertz, Boker, Hen and Rooster, Henckels etc. etc. do OEM some knives and many do so with Spanish manufacturers who do it for less than manufacturers in any other Western European country. In other words the two knives to which you refer may not be original and copy. They may be the same knife from the same factory. I don't know this is the case but it wouldn't surprise me. Hope that helps.
 
Felax20 said:
Does anyone know a good site to buy knives with good steel on?
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All of the on-line dealers sell knives with good steel. All of them also sell knives with no-so-good steel. So don't worry about the which dealer. Worry about which manufacturer and which steel. If you hang around this forum long enough you will become inundated with information about steels - some of it correct and some of it wrong but inundated nonetheless.
 
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