440C or 8A for hunter/skinner? Your choice and why. Thanks!

G

GrizzlyBear

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So I got a possible order for a knife from a friend I work with. I'm still doing blanks and making my own handles and sheaths while I experiment with stock removal. I have found 2 different designs in Jantz catalog that he will like...but I don't know which would be the overall better steel to go with.

One design uses 440C the other uses 8A. Price is within $1 of each other so that's not a factor. I know the knife will be used for hunting and skinning, so I would prefer to choose the best steel for this.

If you had to choose, which would be your choice and why? Keep in mind, I'm still very much a newbie to all of this and what steels work better for different applications.

Thanks so much for your time!
 
They are very similar. The 440C has a tad more chromium. As far as performance goes, they both do well. Get whichever blade you like, the steel difference is negligible.
 
AUS-8 is closer to 440-B, not 440-C. Aus-10 which is very rare, is closer to 440-C.

In real world performance, AUS-8 can't hold a candle to 440-C. It is only .75% carbon, where as 440-C is apx. 1.00% In fact, 154-CM is modified 440-C. (As is ATS-34). Arguably two of the top steel choices for many of the Custom Makers. Including the Loveless Shop as well as myself.

AUS-8 takes a fine polish, and sharpens easily. It however, doesn't hold an edge well at all.

I have never seen a full blown custom knife made from AUS-8. Ever! There is good reason for that!

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
 
You really need to make absolutely sure that the 440c blank is really 440c and not something else. You will pay a premium for true 440c over what can be thought of as "lesser" stainless. I have seen some of the same design blanks that Jantz say are 440c available from other suppliers listed as 6a. Example Jantz "Apache Hunter" is described as 440c whereas Texas Knifemakers have the same design in 6a called the "Sam Houston Skinner". Both are sold at a pretty similar price.

I am not saying that either company is right or wrong. It just seems unlikely to me that a big factory in Japan is going to stamp out thousands of the same blank from both 440c and 6a and wholesale them at a rate that is the same.

IMHO if it is listed as 8a it is more likely to be 8a and not something else.

In any event the heat treat is really what will make the difference.

As they say "buyer beware"

Kevin
 
Perhaps I oversimplified the short answer.

Yes there is a difference in the C and Cr content. The excess C ends up with the excess Cr as chromium carbides. This mainly increases the corrosion resistance, and both steel types will have fine corrosion resistance.

As far HT goes, on commercial pre-made blades go, I don't think it will matter, as the HT is done professionally.

Both blades from Jantz/Texas/etc. will have approx. the same hardness and nearly the same edge retention.

I agree with Kevin that different sellers seem to call the same blade different steels.
However it is quite likely that the stamping factories in Japan and China could stamp the blanks from whatever Jantz ordered....now if they use what was asked for ???? That is a different question.
 
Hmmm, wonder if Jantz is false advertising their blanks?

The Sioux Hunter appears to be the same blade as the Texas Skinner over at Texas Knife Supply. Jantz says 440C....TKS says 6A.

Thanks for the replies.
 
bladsmth said:
Perhaps I oversimplified the short answer.

Yes there is a difference in the C and Cr content. The excess C ends up with the excess Cr as chromium carbides. This mainly increases the corrosion resistance, and both steel types will have fine corrosion resistance.

As far HT goes, on commercial pre-made blades go, I don't think it will matter, as the HT is done professionally.

Both blades from Jantz/Texas/etc. will have approx. the same hardness and nearly the same edge retention.

I agree with Kevin that different sellers seem to call the same blade different steels.
However it is quite likely that the stamping factories in Japan and China could stamp the blanks from whatever Jantz ordered....now if they use what was asked for ???? That is a different question.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. The higher carbon content will help in a higher RC. The higher chromium carbides will also aid in longer edge retention than a like steel with a lower content. 440-C is known for fairly good edge retention. AUS steels are known for ease of sharpening, and attaining a very sharp edge, doe to finer grain structure. But they loose is it in cutting almost instantly. With the exception being AUS 10. If you can find it!
I have been hearing about AUS-10 for years now, and have yet to see it in an actual knife.
I have a AUS bladed knife right here in front of me, and it is screaming sharp, and will remain so, until it touches something. And yes. It was professionally heat treated.

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives,
 
I don't think that Jantz are knowingly misrepresenting some of their blanks as 440C. It may be an old mistake that has just been perpetuated. It could be as simple as someone at Jantz thinking that 6a is the same as 440C. It isn't - 6a (aka AUS-6) can be thought of as roughly equivalent to 440A, 8a (aka AUS-8) is roughly equivalent to 440B and as stated above 440C has an equivalent in the hard to find 10a (aka AUS-10). The AUS steels seem to be exclusively Asian in origin. There is a stickie around here somewhere on the properties, characteristics and groupings of the various blade steels by Joe Talmadge. It is well worth reading to gain an understanding.

The AUS family steels have slightly less carbon but more vanadium than the 440 family steels. This means that generally the AUS family steel will take an extremely sharp edge easier than its 440 series equivalent, but it won't hold that edge for as long as the 440 series steel.

If it were me assembling the blank for a mate I would probably go for one in 8a as that is most probably what it will be.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Jantz 440C is actually 6a. I bought a Cheyenne Hunter kit from Jantz about 8 years ago before I really started to get into knives and IIRC it had a little gold oval sticker on when it arrived with either AUS-6 or 6a on it. It sure didn't say 440anything and was in their catalogue as 440-c stainless high-polish. I didn't know enough about knife steels then to know any better. I am not setting out to knock Jantz here. I have bought stuff off them in the past and will do so again.

Kevin
 
AUS 8 is some good steel, heat treated correctly. I would definitely pick it over 440C. AUS8 contains some Vanadium, while 440C doesn't. My properly heat treated AUS8 blades(factory knives) take a great edge and hold it very well.
 
That is strange Danbo. I can't get aus-8 to make it thru one half a deer. Yet, I can field dress and skin several with 440-c and still shave a little hair. AUS- can't shave after the first couple of cuts. It dulls super fast.

I have probably 20 or so aus bladed knives here. Not one will hold an edge. None!

Problem is, most people think the knives they own marked 440-stainless is 440-C. It isn't. They are 440-A. Pure junk. 440-C is a true cutlery steel. And acts like it.

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
 
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