440C steel

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Plumberdv

Plumberdv

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I'm thinking about purchasing a couple of Bucks that have the 440C steel blades. Can anyone clue me into what the upside and downside of that blade material?
 
Used to be considered a super steel, back in the days, but now largely superseded by current alloys (ATS-34, CPM 154, S30V, BG-42). Tough to sharpen tho' diamond hones work well, holds a good edge when you get it there, very corrosion resistant.
 
Some still consider it a super steel, as it was back in the day. Currently on, or a little above par when compared to AUS-8. Edge retention is below 154CM and ATS-34, but rust resistance is higher.
 
I agree with the Ed and Josh.

I find 440C holds an edge less well than 154CM, but noticeably better than AUS8. It does respond well to diamond, but I also get good results with my Sharpmaker with its ceramic stones.

I'm not sure how long Buck did this, but my Bucks from the '60s in 440C had a relatively thick edge. (I believe they were compensating for the belief at the time that 440C was brittle.) Because the edge is thicker, there is more steel to remove to sharpen it, which of course takes more effort.
 
440C is among the top steels.A very good stainless better than ATS34 and depending on the heat treating it can be better than ATS34 in edge retention as well.People repeat what they read from writers who have not done any real testing.440C is not as brittle as ATS34 either.So, its up there in the pack of the top 7 cutlery steels espically when a good cryogenic bath is used.Economy is one of its strongest attractions next to toughness.Several super steels are priced 2-3 times higher than what 440C cost but do they deliver to the user 2-3 times the edge retention of 440C ? Not in my experience.
There is probably more 440C being used today by custom maker than any other steel.
For good reason.Economy,stainless,takes a mirror polish well,easy to work with,toughness and edge retention.Theres a lot to like about it espically when compared to some of the maladies of the other steels.DM
 
David's coments make me wonder if 440c blades were a option for a CS110 would you be tempted? I suspect Paul Bos HT'ed 440c would be as good as it got and add that to the new edge technology and you'd think it would be one heck of a blade.
 
440C is currently a much-maligned steel, and when you hear somebody bad-mouthing it, it's usually a pretty good indication that the person doesn't know what he's talking about. As has previously been pointed out, the heat treat can make a huge difference, but that's really true of every steel. And if you happen to be lucky enough to find a 440C blade that's been forged . . . ah, you just hit the jackpot.
 
Sounds like it's pretty good stuff then. I was curious because Buck has a couple listed in the Web Specials section that they say have vintage 440C blades. I guess I'll have to ga ahead and order one of them.

Thanks for all the input.
 
Plumber,Now where is this?You get one you won't regret it.Paul (if I remember correctly)
went to work for Buck in 78 or 79 and it was at his insistence and subsequent testing that Buck began gearing up at their new El Cajon plant to accomodate his cryogenic quench
during the heat treat process.So, those 2dot 110 blades guys like could have Paul's first
cryogenic treatment and certainly the 3dots.All 440C.No steel is the ends all.Its like CJ said its a compromise.Do you want toughness,stainless, edge retention? Then carry the one that delievers it and remember grind and heat treat play a bigger part.DM
 
I have one of those 3 dot blades on a factory finger groove grip and it's SWEET! One of my favorites, right behind the BG-42 finger groove.
I would love to see 440C offered by the custom shop. I'd really love to see it return as the standard steel even though I like the 420HC in current use.
I seek out 440C bladed Bucks on the evil bay and love using them.
Bob
 
Well said DM! I think alot of people get it confused with the 440A that is inferior and used on cheaper knives. I like finding an old 440C buck that has been laying around unloved for years, and then bringing it back to it's intended purpose of being one of the best user knives for the money that you can buy!
 
I just ordered the 500, and I'm still trying to make up my mind about the 112. They were both made for the BCCI 20th anniversary.

"0500BO-B
Duke
Overview Tech Specs
Built special for our Buck Collector's Club 20th Anniversary Celebration, this Duke model, with elegant smooth waterbuffalo horn inlays, has a vintage 440C blade. This is a great addition to any collection.

Only 100 made."
 
I agree w/ Seaplane and rdg.I as well like the finger groove frame and carry one.Good comfortable feel.When you think about the what it would cost today to purchase a well built locking folder of top grade steel.Those older Bucks look attractive in the 30-40$ range.Plumber, I saw the 112 in Ram's horn while at the 20yr. event but I don't remember seeing the 500.Could you post a picture if its not too much hassle?DM
 
David Martin said:
I agree w/ Seaplane and rdg.I as well like the finger groove frame and carry one.Good comfortable feel.When you think about the what it would cost today to purchase a well built locking folder of top grade steel.Those older Bucks look attractive in the 30-40$ range.Plumber, I saw the 112 in Ram's horn while at the 20yr. event but I don't remember seeing the 500.Could you post a picture if its not too much hassle?DM
Click to expand...

I just placed the order this morning, so I don't have the knife to take a picture of. Best I can do is direct you to the Buck website and the web specials page. This is a screen shot from the site. Not much detail.
 

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I believe it's because 420HC is much easier to sharpen. Which is fortunate, because it needs to be sharpened much more often. But what do I know?
 
One of my all time favorite knives is a Benchmade Mini-Tsek. It has a 440C blade which I love. Awsome edge retention! Who cares if it's harder to sharpen. If you don't let it get to dull, no problems. :D
 
I also Love to find the older Buck knives made out of 440C. I have three 2 dot 110 that I use in my edc rotation for work. I know that if Buck did bring back 440C as an option for a custom, that I would be in line to get a few. I really like the Rams Horn 112 that they made. Plumb you will more than likely love the 112, and the 500 when you do see them. Both of mine are in the safe right now. HL
 
Buck began using 425M around 1981 and dropped the 440C. They moved on to 420HC in 1994. It’s my understanding that both of these steel changes resulted from a need to improve blade blanking efficiency (actually in the case of 440C to 425M the new blanking equipment didn’t like 440C). I would imagine that each new steel choice was also less expensive than its predecessor.

At least that's my understanding from what I recall reading on the subject.
 
David Martin said:
440C is among the top steels.A very good stainless better than ATS34 and depending on the heat treating it can be better than ATS34 in edge retention as well.People repeat what they read from writers who have not done any real testing.440C is not as brittle as ATS34 either.So, its up there in the pack of the top 7 cutlery steels espically when a good cryogenic bath is used.Economy is one of its strongest attractions next to toughness.Several super steels are priced 2-3 times higher than what 440C cost but do they deliver to the user 2-3 times the edge retention of 440C ? Not in my experience.
There is probably more 440C being used today by custom maker than any other steel.
For good reason.Economy,stainless,takes a mirror polish well,easy to work with,toughness and edge retention.Theres a lot to like about it espically when compared to some of the maladies of the other steels.DM
Click to expand...

David,
I do my own testing and the 440C blade I tested was that of a Buck 110.
In my testing, BUCK 440C did not have as good edge retention as 154CM / ATS-34.

Here is a report of my results:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641279

I do not write about that which I do not know from personal experience.

Frank Rawolle
aka knarfeng
 
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