440c vs 154cm

H

Hesparus

Joined
Oct 31, 2004
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Someone in the BG-42 vs S30v (I think it was Dan Gray) mentioned that 154cm holds a better edge than 440c but 440c is tougher. To what extent is this true? I ask because I am about to make several knives that are bigger than what I usually make (5"-7" blades) in 5/32" stock. For most small knives, like the ones I make, toughness isn't such an issue but I'm worried that my old reliable might not do the trick for some bigger, heavier blades (although I know they're not THAT big or heavy compared to a lot of the stuff you guys make). Is the difference in toughness going to be a problem with these blades? Will tip and edge geometry make up for the difference?
Thanks,

- Chris
 
Chris,

I say this not to be a wiseass but to point something out to a lot of those newer makers:

Make one each of the knives in the two steels as identical as you can. HT them or get them HT'd professionally. Finish the knives to the extent you can beat the hell out of them to answer the question for yourself. Create some rough tests and see if there is a noticeable difference.

Then you'll be able to answer the customers, "I've tested both steels under these circumstances and IMO xxx performed better for the following reasons:"

Like I said, I'm not chewing on you at all. I'm offering the advice that you should form your own opinions from experience and don't just rely on hearsay. Charts are good. Self-testing is better and impresses the customer that you care that much.
 
Hesparus said:
Someone in the BG-42 vs S30v (I think it was Dan Gray) mentioned that 154cm holds a better edge than 440c but 440c is tougher. To what extent is this true? I ask because I am about to make several knives that are bigger than what I usually make (5"-7" blades) in 5/32" stock. For most small knives, like the ones I make, toughness isn't such an issue but I'm worried that my old reliable might not do the trick for some bigger, heavier blades (although I know they're not THAT big or heavy compared to a lot of the stuff you guys make). Is the difference in toughness going to be a problem with these blades? Will tip and edge geometry make up for the difference?
Thanks,

- Chris
Click to expand...

you'll have to beat on the 154CM pretty hard see any difference..
as I always say it depends on what you want and need.

I've used in the past 440C but I choose to use 154CM Now.
do as Mike says see for your self I like the 154CM because
it has more Moly, 3.25 more in it and less Chrom, .5 less.
in my opinion because of this the 154CM apples to apples in the heat treat
will out do the 440C other than rusting
and that is limited to none with a little maintenance.
toughness
tip and edge geometry can make up for any difference. which I don't think you'll fine a lot,, unless you use them as crow bars...the edge is what I go for.. :)
 
I make a lot of big knives in 154CM and don't have any concern for it's utility. Point and edge geometry are always important. Testing is always good.
 
The first knife I ever made was ATS34 - essentially, Japanese 154CM. I've used it's tip to split the pelvis on more than a dozen deer. I was told that the value of ATS34 was that it retained the same toughness as 440C at a higher hardness. I'll admit it can be a bit of work to sharpen. That's the only criticism I can find - and it's not a big one.


My 2 cents
 
I agree with fitzo. I have test knives that I take out and put them to real world use. I check blade geometry, edge holding, tip strength, cutting ability on different medium, edge strength, those types of things. This will help you in areas like design and types of blade grinds work best for a given situation. Plus it's fun. :D
Scott
 
Thanks for the help, guys. I guess it would be best to do some tests myself but in the mean time I'll trust your input.

- Chris
 
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