440c vs cpm s35vn toughness

Y

y53p

Joined
May 11, 2022
Messages
310
Ik neither are that suited for hard use but which one would be better for chopping/batoning in terms of toughness, and is the edge retention difference that dramatic/worth the extra money?
 
Both are suited just fine for "hard use," if you mean hard use for a knife, and not some ridiculous abuse. Realistically, you are not going to be able to tell much difference if both knives are optimized for the steel.

The problem is that the comparison is pretty much useless unless you are talking about identical knives/grinds/geometry and heat treat/hardness optimized for both steels.

Get what you want and use it as a knife. As long as it's quality, you'll be fine. Great steel done poorly or a stupid design will always disappoint.

Sam
 
As others have noted, heat treat accounts for a lot. You can temper a given steel differently; edge retention and toughness have an inverse relationship as you move along the Rockwell scale. Most 440C and S35VN is going to be treated in a way that isn't well suited for chopping or batoning, but I'm sure someone could do that. Even D2, which is notorious for chipping at the hardnesses it's usually treated to, is treated softer and used by a few makers to make axes. Another thing to note is that S35VN is a brand name of steel from Crucible. 440C can be a lot of things, and sometimes even steels that don't fall within 440C specs are sold as 440C. So there's a huge difference between the cheapest 440C knives you can find and a high end maker using quality 440C that's been carefully treated. This is a case where buying the brand of knife might make a bigger difference than the steel.
 
Not familiar with those tests, and not saying 440C beats S35VN in that department. But unless everything about the knives is identical, including the correct heat treat/hardness for each steel, that information is nearly worthless for comparing the two steels. Potentially valuable for comparing the performance of two different knives, but not the steels themselves.

I agree with your comment, though.

Another Shepherd said:
Yes, it depends on geometry and heat treatment, but Pete at Cedric & Ada using real knives gets about 2 or 3 times as many rope cuts from S35VN than from 440C.

So is S35VN worth maybe 2 to 5 times the price? That's up to you.
Click to expand...


Sam
 
Another Shepherd said:
Yes, it depends on geometry and heat treatment, but Pete at Cedric & Ada using real knives gets about 2 or 3 times as many rope cuts from S35VN than from 440C.

So is S35VN worth maybe 2 to 5 times the price? That's up to you.
Click to expand...
It means a lot more years of use on a given sweet knife you like, which seems worth it to me for the most part
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMG
Are you trying to decide between two knives? I wonder why the question in the first place? Anyway, if you look up specific knife reviews you can find plenty of knives in either steel that hold up pretty well to abuse. I haven't looked up 440C in a while, but there is a video or two out there on the ZT0550 in s35vn that holds up very well to some abuse.
 
Also assumes no problems in the PM fabrication process. The PM process has many more steps and is open to failures that you don't see in melt alloys. Does not happen often, but it does happen.
 
If I wanted a beater, I'd look for one in 420HC or high carbon steel from a reputable maker. Lots to choose from.
 
For the intended purpose from the first post, edge retention cutting rope won’t help much. I’d go with 440C if the maker/manufacturer has a good reputation for 440C.
 
hangmanshammer said:
Are you trying to decide between two knives? I wonder why the question in the first place? Anyway, if you look up specific knife reviews you can find plenty of knives in either steel that hold up pretty well to abuse. I haven't looked up 440C in a while, but there is a video or two out there on the ZT0550 in s35vn that holds up very well to some abuse.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m deciding between a Maserin 977 bowie and a Buck 120 pro. Both great slicers, though the Maserin has a stouter build and grind which is why I’d definitely pair the 120 with an axe anyways, though it should be able to handle some light chopping and batoning.
 
Toughness is probably a bigger rabbit hole than you think. Tough against what? S35VN will probably have the edge. You mentioned that you are getting the Buck 120 Pro. This means it will be getting a BOS Heat Treatment. Buck's 440 is much better than the standard 440, but S35VN will still most likely hold an edge more than it. I would say though, the difference in usage would most likely be unnoticeable. 440 will sharpen much easier than S35VN, so if you are going to be hard using it, I would suggest going with the Buck 120. Not only because it is a proven model, but because you can sharpen it yourself with relative ease. S35VN is also not a real bother to sharpen, but 440 is especially easy.
 
14C28N is a great beater steel. It is one of the toughest stainless blade steels and has very good corrosion resistance. I've actually sought it out in larger customs.

Edge retention might not be as good but 14C28N is easy to maintain. At least in production knives, I tend to get better edge retention out of 14C28N than I do 440C.
 
Last edited:
I'd take 14C28N if I was bent on tough steel being stainless. And Magnacut if money wasn't an issue...

Otherwise, for tough steel - there are plain carbon steels and low alloy carbon steels and stuff such as CPM-3V.
 
y53p said:
Yeah I’m deciding between a Maserin 977 bowie and a Buck 120 pro. Both great slicers, though the Maserin has a stouter build and grind which is why I’d definitely pair the 120 with an axe anyways, though it should be able to handle some light chopping and batoning.
Click to expand...
In my limited experience, Maserin knives tend to be worse than expected based on specs, while Buck knives tend to be better. So I would say it's no contest here--go with Buck!
 
Another Shepherd said:
In my limited experience, Maserin knives tend to be worse than expected based on specs, while Buck knives tend to be better. So I would say it's no contest here--go with Buck!
Click to expand...
Yeah I’ll definitely get the Buck, as their knives haven’t disappointed me in the past. I have no experience with Maserin but it’s the first time I hear something negative about them. Can you explain your experience with them/which knife it was with?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top