.45ACP v .40S&w, effective difference? Your thoughts sought....

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
So, in the excellent thread 10mm Auto v .45 ACP, your thoughts requested The idea that I should choose a .40 S&W was brought forth.....

Why?

To start out, I have found the 1911A1 very comfortable to shoot, so that is leaning me towards the .45 ACP.

One of my concerns is undersupported chambers... I have heard that some .40S&W are tooled from 9mm, causing an unsopported chamber...
 
Okay I'll toss the first spark into this powder keg...;)

Don't get a .40. There are two and only two legitimate semi-automatic pistol calibers on planet earth, the 9mm and the .45. All others are simply trying to be one or the other. That's all you see, hear or read these days, "The new wonder round gives near .45 caliber performance..." or "The new wonder caliber feeds nearly as reliably and holds almost as many rounds as the 9mm..." Then why not just get a .45 or 9mm?

Okay, that's enough chum/flame bait. Lots of people have a caliber preference and that's fine. It's fairly well agreed upon that no handgun bullet is a for-sure man stopper. After all the hoopla, all the stats, all the percentages, what always comes out is that there's little substantial difference between one major caliber (9mm, .40, .357sig, .45) and another. Well placed shots win fights.

No gun is perfect either, I've read about the .40 kaboom stuff too. Lot's of agencies carry them though, so it can't be as bad as it reads on the 'net. I think it's currently the most popular "switch to" caliber in law enforcement. Of course, I read that some agencies tried it, then switched back... to 9mm. Rent one at a range and see what you think, why not?

All kidding aside, and more gently stated than above, I really believe that in auto pistols, 9mm or .45 are the logical choices. Stick with the proven winners, in a hundred years or so, if .40 or .357sig take off, you can pick one up.;) :D
 
Every round will be compared to the 45 ACP. You say you like the .45 ACP. Use it, don't buy the next best thing to the .45 ACP, buy the real thing.
 
My 2 cents. Carry the largest round that you can accurately shoot. I personally would take a .45 over a .40 any day.
 
Our department started issuing the Glock 23 in .40SW about 5 years ago. We are not a very "combative" department; being campus law enforcement. (we have never had a shooting incident)
Still, when we went with these weapons, I did a lot of research, and the .40 was showing excellent results as a combat round, with many departments reporting a high percentage of "one-shot-stops."

Of course, the .45, especially with modern loads, has an excellent reputation as a stopper as well; but for most police departments, this has to be balanced against what might be percieved as a bias that the .45 is "difficult to shoot", has more recoil, etc. This preys on the minds of police administrators, who may be dealing with officers who are female and/or of very small stature. (in most areas, height and weight requirements went out the window long ago.)

I think, if left to my own devices, I might go with the .45; I've put many rounds through 1911s. Still, the Glock is an unsurpassed combat weapon, in my opinion, and I certainly don't feel underarmed.
 
MDP, et al,

I shoot .45 and 9mm because of availabiltiy, price, and known effectiveness of the ammunition.

If you search .40 can be had for the same price as .45. You can sometimes find it for less (reloaded .40 vs reloaded .45). Since I think that you should have >500 rounds of practice ammunition on hand I buy in case lots (~550 to 1000) and find prices plumet. I have not seen the same price reductions for .40 case lots. \

Why have so much practice handgun ammunition on hand? To practice with, of course! If that sounds silly then think about the responsibilty that a handgun represents and what you want it for. If you want to be able to defend yourself with a handgun then you had better be able to hit your target. You had better be able to clear jams, You had better be able to get it on target quickly. You had better be able to change magazines. You had better be able to hit a moving target while you are moving. You had better be able to shoot in low light conditions. If you can't do these things with a handgun then you might as well spend the money on locks, bars and alarms because the bad guys don't have to give you a chance to assume the proper stance and close one eye to acquire the sights. They have far less regard for where their bullets go than you have to (remember that violent criminals are wired wrong and they don't think like you).

That being said, if the .40 shoots better for you than the .45 then shoot the .40! Your first handgun should be taken to the range 3 times a week and light target loads fired for the first 2 weeks. Then you should switch to a couple of times a month for another 2 months and then every month for the rest of the year. You should get training in shooting at multiple targets, while moving, while using concealment, in low light conditions. Get an Airsoft replica of your gun and work on these things if there isn't a good range couse available locally. Sign up for one of the one week combat handgun courses at some time if there are no local shops that train these techniques.

I was lucky that I got into these courses while they were available locally. I ended up helping teach them (bad guy/target) and got lots of practice being shot at by both civilian and LE students. Believe me nothing gets your attention like simunition! It was amazing that more times than not (lots more) they did not hit me. This at ranges as close as 7 feet. I even had people make noncenterofmass shots at 4 feet.
 
.40s are great. Remember we are talking handgun and not rifle cartridges. I think a 9mm is great too and can get the job done.

.40 has certainly enjoyed many successes against humans in the LEO community where the weapons frequently get used in real situations that a citizen might encounter (as opposed to mongol assaults, etc).
I believe that when we are specifically look at the .40s intended role... personal defense (vs. bullseye, hunting, etc) it truly combines the best of 9mm (short trigger reach, higher capacity) and .45 (increase in bullet diameter, heavier bullets, wide weight range 135gr-180gr) while not giving up too much in either direction.

It was never meant to be a do it all like the 10mm in the sense of hunting, long range flat trajectory, large power levels, etc. but it was intended as a round for stopping human threats. It does this very well given the right loadings.

As far as kabooms (kB!).. the .40 is already a high pressure round and when people reload and try to milk more than they should from the .40 things get bad fast. Yes there are platforms that were born as a 9mm and then chambered for .40 but the frame was not scaled up as well. But... in my opinion there are many platforms that have unsupported chambers as well. Just take the barrel out and place a shell inside and look where the feedramp transitions into the chamber. there will be some of the unsupported case, right after the primer pocket. At least I have seen this on Glocks, USPs, 1911s, Makarovs and SIGs. Maybe the Glock's is a little more unsupported? I didn't have the luxury of comparing them next to each other as .40.

Whew...

Marion, do you like the 1911 as a platform or the combination of 1911 and .45? The reason I ask is because some manufacturers make .40s in the 1911 platform as well.

After all that, I still prefer the .45. Perhaps it's just the caveman in be but there is something about those big bullets that give me the warm and fuzzies.

Many of the top firearms instructors across the USA (in the world too IMO) use the 1911 in .45. There must be a reason, considering these guys pretty much are the experts and they have their choice of almost any weapon system in the world.

I could be wrong!

cheers
 
The 40 S&W and 45 acp are so close ballistically that the PRACTICAL difference is just about zero, IMHO. The best loads in both cartidges have good track records in police shootings. I use both with confidence, and find myself using my 1911 pistols less and less. My Glock 22 in 40 S&W meets my department's specs for new duty pistols, and I carry it because I am virtually ambidextrous with it, which is a tremendous advantage in police patrol work. I do keep a 1911 in 45 acp "grandfathered" under the older firearms policy, but I simply cannot shoot it both fast and well left-handed. (Yes, I know Glock makes 45 acp pistols, but my employer specifies 40 S&W.)
 
I'd make the gun selection first. If I was happy with the 1911 style auto, I'd carry a Commander sized .45. I had one and loved it. I was less happy with Glock's Model 30. It would stovepipe unless I held a fierce grip on it. Glock said there was nothing wrong with it (I sent it back) that I was "limp-wristing" it. Well, OK, but what if I had to shoot it off-hand or injured? Would it be OK for it to stovepipe then? "Glock perfection"? I could suspend my 1911 from a string and pull the trigger by poking it with a pencil and the gun would cycle properly. I am not a Glock basher. In fact, four Glocks is now all the handguns I own, but none of them is a .45. I carry either the G23 or G27 (.40SW). My wife has a G19 (9MM) which is plenty as a fight-stopper. My G17 is a contest gun.
 
Thank guys...

I find the 1911A1 to be just about perfect for me, when I have shot it.

So, I will most likely got with that.

I just wanted to see if there was shining benefit to .40S&W.

Thank you all so much.
 
I know this... I have shot in a couple of Bowling pin shoots and some steel with my Glock 35. When the bullet hits you can see the difference! The .45 will knock the pins off the table and the .40 will not always do this. A bad hit on steel and it will still fall with the .45. A bad hit on steel will leave you frustrated with the .40.

The biggest factor for me is the number of rounds. In some of the matches or drills I have shot in, the .45 guys have to count rounds and reload while I'm still addressing targets.

I also know this the 9mm pins are moved to the back of the table so that they have a fighting chance.:rolleyes:

Seeing is Believing!

Gadget54
 
Both calibres guard my house, wife and body. Of course, this is after research.

Since my wife is a leftie, we use a SW 4516 in the bedroom. It has ambi-safties. Since we feel that if the fight has pushed us to the bedroom, we need a cannon with penetration. We load the bedroom gun with hardball.

I have a custom throated 1911A1. It's relaible with Silver-Tips and Golden Sabres, when I can get them.

My H&K and my SIG 229 are 40's. The SIG seems to be more controllable with Blazer Gold Dot Hollow-Points, which are really loaded hot, by the way! The H&K likes Golden Sabres.

The bottom line is that we shoot often, we try lots of stuff and we don't try to make one load work in them all.

BTW, my wife has an 'anger management' problem. If she gets really annoyed, she pulls a nickel plated, old style, Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 Special. It's stoked with ugly hollow-points and she could give a rip. I came home early one night, she was in bed reading and I got to see the muzzle up close and personal.
 
Unless you are going to shoot competition with a high cap 1911 .40, I see no great advantage. There have been some well documented explosions with .40 factory ammo, all that I have seen have been with Glock .40s. If you shoot a Glock .40, replace the recoil spring often and you can probably avoid problems.

IMO it's 9mm or .45.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top