5000+ grit Waterstone or Ultrafine Ceramic?

[yoda4561]

I've been getting the itch again to see just how sharp I can take my edges to, but I have no full sized finishing stones. I've heard good things about the new Glasstones from Shapton, but nothing that's really sold me on them yet. Is the shapton pro 5000 any good, I keep hearing about problems with loading, etc. I have their 1000 grit stone and it's pretty hard, is the 5000 harder? I appreciate that in a finish stone since it's really easy to mess up a polished edge on a soft stone that can gouge. So it's either one of those two or a spyderco ultrafine ceramic, I'm pretty familiar with those, loading shouldn't be a problem since you can just wipe most of that off. No need to recommend anything finer than that, since I know that my freehand sharpening skills won't make full use of a 30,000 grit stone or something of that nature.

 

[yuzuha]

Here is a high magnification pic of the Spyderco ultra fine ultra-fine at about 1800x. Looks to be rounded 2000 grit abrasive with a very dense, hard bond so it can burnish out about a 5000 grit finish, though streaky and not as even as a true 5000 grit stone.

I haven't had any loading problems on the Shapton pro 5k stone. Sometimes it is a bit slick and takes a few strokes to get it started, but once it is cutting, it cuts very well and leaves a bright, though misty, mirror finish (looks like a mirror with a thin layer of dew on it. 8k has just a hint of mist and 10k-15k is adamantine bright like a telescope mirror). I haven't tried the glass stones (I have the 1k, 2k, 5k, 8k and 15k in the pro series so no need to buy one until curiosity over the 30k gets the better of me), though people who've tried the glass stones seem to like them.

Here is a chart showing which grits are available in the pro series (green), which in the glass (pink) series and which are available in both (purple) grit chart

 

[SteelDriver]

My Pro 5K tends to load somewhat on stainless steels. I can rub off some of the streaks with my finger but what remains slows the cutting noticeably if allowed to build up. I have a set of Pro slipstones, so I just rub the benchstone with the 5k slipstone every now and then to clear any loading. I've tried a cheap nagura and it gets the job done, too. This only takes a few seconds, but you have to rinse the stone clean immediately afterwards because the leftover mud interferes with the cutting. On carbon steels, finger rubbing can remove almost all of the streaks.

On my 1k and 2k I also rub off streaks periodically while sharpening, using the corresponding slipstone. The lower grit Shaptons don't load as easily, but I like to keep the stone clean and the swarf buildup to a minimum while sharpening.

If I could buy them again, I'd get the 4k GlassStone instead of the Pro 5k. I don't use the 5k enough to justify it's greater cost compared to my 1k & 2k. The 4k is thinner but should last me a lifetime anyways. Another option is the Norton 4k/8k, which gives you a higher grit to play with as your skills improve.

 

[yoda4561]

Okay, decided to get one of the glassstones, either the 4k or 8k. The question now is should I get an intermediate stone too? I only have the 1000 grit shapton and a 4 or 6k(can't remember) king polish stone(and an assortment of diamond/sic/etc stones). Just imagine for a bit that the king and others doesn't exist, I don't like the king much cept for hard low alloy steels, and the others aren't used much cept for rough sharpening. I know a 2k or so would be a more proper grit progression, but at the same time the cost does add up quickly.

 

[yuzuha]

Haven't tried the glass stones so can't comment on them, but I know of people who like them. I do like the Shapton 5k better than the 8k in the pro series though. Skipping from the 1k to an 8k is a big jump and will keep you polishing for a long time unless you use that King 4k in between. The 2k is a really nice stone and quickly smooths that rough 1k finish to the point that you can begin to see your reflection as the surface begins to become mirror-like. Going to the 8k from there would be feasable since jumping from the 2k to the 5k is almost trivial.

 

[yoda4561]

What about if I go from 1k to 4k? Any real benefit for a 2k stone then? I think the 8 will need to wait, it's a bit expensive since I'll need that and at least the 4k to go along with it.

 

[Larrin]

What about if I go from 1k to 4k? Any real benefit for a 2k stone then? I think the 8 will need to wait, it's a bit expensive since I'll need that and at least the 4k to go along with it.

I can't speak from experience, but they say that the 2k is pretty fast (almost as fast as 1k), and gets a much higher polish than the 1k, that's the benefit of the 2k. The 2k is recommended by both users and Shapton to be a good overall stone. Going from 1k to 4k is probably fine. BTW, Murray Carter, who makes Japanese kitchen knives, and has a video on sharpening, uses two stones: a 1k and 6k King.