5160 steel-your opinion matters

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kickplate69

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Ok how does 5160 stack up in the high carbon steel arena? I see it now and again and I have a feeling that it is a small step down from 1095. If I'm wrong tell me. But overall, I'm not sure how it stacks up. Is it more flexible, or more brittle than 1095?
 
To the best of my knowledge, 5160 has a little less carbon and a little more chrome. This means that 5160 will harden alot more deeply than 1095, but it will not have the same "as quenched" hardness. In my experience, 5160 makes a very tough blade, but will not hold an edge quite as long a 1095. I find that 5160 is marginally easier to sharpen.
 
Don't they use that in axes? Pretty sure a number of axes I have seen (higher end ones I think) were using that steel.
 
1095 makes a great cutlery steel as it takes a nice sharp edge, holds it quite well and is still fairly easy to sharpen - it offers a great performance to cost ratio. It's a very simple steel with (I believe) .95% carbon and some manganese being the only alloying agents. The only real downsides is that it has zero chromium so it rusts fairly easily and can be a bit less tough than other carbon steels.

5160 on the other hand, is a bit more complex as far as alloying goes - as already said, it has less carbon (.5% or so) and chromium added. The lower carbon and higher chromium content makes it insanely tough, even up to 57-58hrc so it tends to really shine when it comes to high impact tools like large chopping blades or axes... Most ABS Journeymen test blades are made of 5160, deferentially heat treated and given a convex grind. If you're not familiar with the ABS Journeyman test, applicants essentially have to forge a blade that can A) Slice cleanly through free-hanging 1" manila rope then B) Chop through two sections of 2x4 with no edge damage C) Prove it so by shaving with the blade then D) Bend the blade 90 degrees without breaking it.

Also note that Becker knives aren't made of 1095 - they're actually made of 0170-6 or 50100-B which is similar to 1095 but with the addition of chromium and vanadium. Kabar markets it as 1095crovan, which I guess is technically accurate, but too often gets mixed up with plain old 1095 by a lot of people.
 
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kickplate69 said:
Ok how does 5160 stack up in the high carbon steel arena? I see it now and again and I have a feeling that it is a small step down from 1095. If I'm wrong tell me. But overall, I'm not sure how it stacks up. Is it more flexible, or more brittle than 1095?
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Hey Kickplate, I have a few Khukri's a Bolo and some small/medium fixed blades made from 5160. You're welcome to come to Spring City and try them out. The Anual May campout up Spring City canyon is a great time to try them out, there will be tons of knives there and lots of them will be Khukris made from 6150. :D

BTW Ranger Knives RD Series and others are also made from 5160 and from what I hear they are pretty nice.
 
I have a David Wesner chopper made out of 5160. Little tougher to sharpen, but it makes a great hard-use knife. With a good heat treatment, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 5160 blade if I liked the design.

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My rule of thumb for these two steels has always been, IF I want a knife that it's basic function is to CUT, go with 1095. 1095 can be more brittle than 5160, and I'm saying CAN BE (so don't jump down my throat people). HEAT TREAT, HEAT TREAT, HEAT TREAT can make all the difference in a steels ability to function well.

IF I want a steel that is going to be used hard, ie chop with, bang on, cut, maybe dig (you know survival) I go with 5160. 5160 is a very tough hard use steel that is known to be a spring steel therefore found in springs under old vehicles. Edge holding (generally) is not as good as 1095 but very good none the less and again, HEAT TREAT, HEAT TREAT, HEAT TREAT.

Both will rust and IMHO 1095 will rust a little faster. Good luck on your choosing for whatever your intentions of use will be!!!
 
I have 3 blades in 5160. Two of those are Ontario/Ranger Afghan and RD4. Those seem to be softer than my other one. The Ontarios sharpen fast, but don't hold the edge very long. I would not hesitate to stab through sheet steel, throw at a concrete wall, if necessary. They just seem tough as hell, I've pryed the tip into an old stump, with no breaking, bending, warping. I cut through an old golf ball with one, that chipped the blade of the RD4. Granted, the golf ball was old and dry, sunbaked, and I had convexed the edge a bit too thin maybe.
The other is a 12" Bolok by Bruce Culberson. 13/64" thick forged 5160. This thing is amazing. I was chopping across the grain of some seasoned tree limb, down on the property. I did this for about an hour, and there is no damage, and it's still shaving sharp. And I was hitting it about as hard as I could. I wore myself out, the Bolok was laughing at me.
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I've been very pleased with the edge holding of my Beckers.
When I used my Ontario Spec Plus Gen 2 SP50 (5160 steel) on an overnight hike, I thought the edge degraded a little too easily from chopping/delimbing.
The other blades I've used with 5160 were made by Bill Siegle. Those held an edge very well.
 
AF and I are making a good point about steel in general, it comes down to the heat treat. Edge geometry, handle ergos, are important as well.
 
Henry Winkler uses 5160 forged and stock removal. It is supposed to be more abrasion resistant and a little tougher. I'd like to see it on Becker Knives as an option. Would be fun to do a head to head with two BK2's.
 
I admit I'm no expert, but it seems like 5160 is being used on longer blades, swords, and axe heads more than small and medium sized knives. I imagine that, like myself, most guys will put a knife through less impacts than a chopper or axe.
So, would there be a significant benefit for a BK2 in 5160? I'd rather my BK2 have better edge retention, for my uses. I'll take my Culberson for the chopping.
 
foxx said:
I admit I'm no expert, but it seems like 5160 is being used on longer blades, swords, and axe heads more than small and medium sized knives. I imagine that, like myself, most guys will put a knife through less impacts than a chopper or axe.
So, would there be a significant benefit for a BK2 in 5160? I'd rather my BK2 have better edge retention, for my uses. I'll take my Culberson for the chopping.
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Again, Beckers aren't made of 1095... they're made of 1095crovan or 0170-6 / 50100-B. It's a good deal tougher and a wee bit more stain resistant than plain old 1095 (probably closer to O1 I'd say) and I think it's a great choice for the sort of blades in the Becker lineup. Since the BK-2 is a medium sized, thick spined knife, I think its current steel is the perfect choice - very good edge holding with a decent amount of toughness. You really wouldn't be able to get the sort of momentum out of a BK-2 to get heavy enough impacts to see 5160's benefits IMO and you'd also be losing out on some edge retention afforded by 1095crovan.

Now if we're talking a 1/4" thick, zero convexed BK-9, I could see 5160 being a very good choice :p
 
Heat Treat is everything...... A2, 5160, 4140, 1095, 1095CroVan, Carbon V, D2, and some "Secret Squirrel" steels are all wonderful steels for hard use knives IF the HEAT TREAT is done RIGHT.....We ALL get hung up on steel chemistry(after a beer or two or three I do too) but knives are made or unmade in heat treat.....There are a lot of GREAT steels for our blades....BUT if you don't cook it right it will not cut worth a damn or it will be brittle or it will not hold an edge worth a tinker's damn....

All Best....

ethan
 
You guys are great, thanks for your insights and knowlege!
Every post appreciated!

Wildmanh- if college classes aren't too much, then I would like to go to spring city in may and meet up with you guys.

Ethan- pleasantly surprised to see your response, thanks! I have Most of your Kabar lineup.
 
Ethan Becker said:
Heat Treat is everything...... A2, 5160, 4140, 1095, 1095CroVan, Carbon V, D2, and some "Secret Squirrel" steels are all wonderful steels for hard use knives IF the HEAT TREAT is done RIGHT.....We ALL get hung up on steel chemistry(after a beer or two or three I do too) but knives are made or unmade in heat treat.....There are a lot of GREAT steels for our blades....BUT if you don't cook it right it will not cut worth a damn or it will be brittle or it will not hold an edge worth a tinker's damn....

All Best....

ethan
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After that 4th beer the only thing cooking is greasy fried food!
 
Guyon said:
I have a David Wesner chopper made out of 5160. Little tougher to sharpen, but it makes a great hard-use knife. With a good heat treatment, I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 5160 blade if I liked the design.

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Guyon....with that VAST Becker collection, I don't think you have room for this Wesner, I will help you out and take care of it.....you have my address:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Ethan Becker said:
Heat Treat is everything...... A2, 5160, 4140, 1095, 1095CroVan, Carbon V, D2, and some "Secret Squirrel" steels are all wonderful steels for hard use knives IF the HEAT TREAT is done RIGHT.....We ALL get hung up on steel chemistry(after a beer or two or three I do too) but knives are made or unmade in heat treat.....There are a lot of GREAT steels for our blades....BUT if you don't cook it right it will not cut worth a damn or it will be brittle or it will not hold an edge worth a tinker's damn....

All Best....

ethan
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Very well said Mr. Becker! The steel is really just a very small factor and I can definitely attest to that having come from rural Philippines where bolos were part of daily life. Just as with many other third world rural areas around the globe, working blades are made of unknown scrap metal (in the case of my area - leaf springs from old trucks) and yet they all tend to hold up very well as the blacksmiths have years upon years of experience working with steel. A good heat treat - as well as the design and geometry are much more critical than what steel the blade is made of.

That being said, my above comments were more based around the idea of "all other factors aside" as that's really the only way one can generalize about steel performance.
 
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